So the only person who didn't "trust the process" in Philly is....

Not that I saw and not in a way that satisfied my argument.

Semantics aside? This entire point is built on that.

You brought up Philly's approach to coaching as a way of arguing that they're doing it antithetically different than us. How? Both teams have coaches that are either coaching to fail or are failures at coaching. It's the same. How are they antithetical? I'm not sure I understand that point.

The Lakers clearly pandered to the masses by evoking a ton of 80s sympathy and nostalgia and it completely worked. That was money well spent. Besides, the franchise is trying desperately (and I suppose in some cases successfully) to provide the facade that they're a professional's organization. They overpay for their coaches and give them long leashes. It's what they just did with Byron. I don't see a ton of difference in what Philly is doing compared to us with coaches. They've stuck by theirs, given him a nice contract, and encouraged him to "build a culture". What exactly is the difference? The final paycheck? A couple million dollars?

So giving up in December and not October is the difference between tanking and not tanking?

I understand the point. My point is, our process is separated by the flimsiest of walls at this point. I don't subscribe to the idea that the Lakers get a pass on tanking just because they thought they'd done a good enough job in the summer. So the season therefore is a time of... what? Nonexistent work in the FO? They get a pass because they went out and got Roy Hibbert and Lou Williams this summer so their work is done?

I'm not just upset with Scott in his handling of the team, but his results speak for themselves. Not only is this franchise about to have its worst record of all time in either LA or Minneapolis, but the team itself has given up on its coach. They have no direction, no life, and have built almost nothing from a team perspective. Does the teamwork on the court look better or worse now than the start? There's no rationale for keeping Byron Scott around. If they wanted a good babysitter for D'Angelo, that's not hard to find. What's Bernie Bickerstaff doing these days? He can probably do a decent job of that. Having Byron Scott, hiring him in the first place, was defacto tanking. I didn't believe it at first, but hey the record speaks for itself.

Anything is better than nothing and subtracting Byron Scott from the equation was addition to the team's psyche and ability to improve. Firing Mike Brown when we did was the right move even if it didn't help things that season. Firing Byron Scott early was the right move and we didn't make it. Instead we let him mess with rotations, mess with players, fail to install any kind of offense or defense...

It seems like you're stuck on one distinction and have misunderstood my point all along. I said they followed basically the same plan as the Sixers as in the Lakers have been tanking all along for the last two seasons maybe two and a half. Have they used the exact same tactics as the Sixers? No, but like I've been saying there's more ways to tank than just the way the Sixers are doing it and yes they're doing it better than us. You assumed I meant we're following their plan exactly. That's not what I said. I said we're tanking, which to me is completely inarguable. Sure, we made a move or two that would help and we all thought the team would be better this year, but that doesn't mean that as soon as things got tough we didn't tank just as hard as anyone else.

Two movies will be released in theaters this year involving two heroes fighting each other. The reasons and the way those two heroes get to that point could be completely different, but in the end they'll wind up in the same spot: fighting each other. That's my point. Have we done it differently? Sure, but at it's basic level we're tanking just like Phoenix and just like Philadelphia and just like Brooklyn.

I didn't morph anything, you misunderstood my point. Immediately following your response I asked if you really thought the Lakers weren't tanking. It was the first thing I asked. I'm not morphing any argument at all. Tanking doesn't need a formal definition, it's like pornography you know it when you see it. My assertion that we're basically doing the same thing (tanking) is not erroneous at all. The words "the same model" meant something different to you than to me which is called a misunderstanding. To me "the same model" is tanking the season not trying to win games in order to get a better draft pick, and in so failing to establish a winning culture, failing to help the young players reach their potential, failing to build chemistry within the team, and failing to ultimately win games. THAT is the model I see as equivalent to the Sixers.

 

It was both, but I think we're finally making progress here.

I think it's pretty clearly a semantics argument at this point.

Except for when the coach you hire is the losing-est coach in history.

I don't agree with that. These last three seasons might be MOST memorable to Laker fans, but that doesn't mean it won't be a talking point in the NBA for years. The Lakers are (or were?) the premiere franchise in the NBA and one of the premiere franchises in all of sports. Their demise is noteworthy and live infamously everywhere. We'll come back and outlast it eventually, but this rock bottom for the franchise won't just be forgotten by the general media. There's a generation of fans who now know the Lakers as the bad team in Los Angeles. That'll take time to recover from.

Does keeping Scott on help or hurt the reputation? And beyond reputation, does it help or hurt the team?

There's people writing plenty of shameful stories about the Lakers. Follow the work of Baxter Holmes, he writes enough Laker-shaming to literally make a living off of it. Almost any bad Laker story the last few years has Baxter's name attached to it (the Nick Young/D'Angelo story, the lack of analytics, various anti-Kobe articles, he's done them all).

And to me it's not that different which is why I said we could agree to disagree (like I did with shoe), but you're still responding. I won't deny that Philly's is MORE shameful, but that doesn't make ours NOT shameful. What we're doing is still tanking and deserving of your scorn. I'm not going to give the Lakers a pass like they did everything to make this season the best they could. I'm not going to let them get away with providing us a 16 win season like they're NOT tanking. We're still tanking. Just because Philly does it more or better than us, doesn't mean we're innocent.

Like I said: I may have used the wrong word. I admitted to that. This one word is the basis of your entire argument and I've already admitted it could have been worded differently. You're still obstinately arguing against it as if I haven't clarified my position.

Then again: we had a misunderstanding which is what I wrote in my previous post.

What I'm arguing is that they're BOTH tanking and that the Lakers are not trying to win games. I'm not willing to give them credit for making moves in the summer such that they out weigh the entire season of inaction. They're doing nothing to win games and therefore I don't think they're any better than the Sixers. Despite the Sixers TRYING to lose as many games as they can, we've ended up with 9 more wins than them. You're going to really try to build an argument as if the Lakers' position is so much greater than the Sixers? C'mon. They've been tanking and I'm not willing to forgive that.

 

I hear you and I hope there's no hard feelings at all! It's just easier to break down posts that way for me.



I just hate where we're at. Usually we fans kind of hyperbolically say something like "This is rock bottom! We, the real fans, will remember coming out of this!" All my years at CL before LB and now here at LB we've all said that and it's never been true until the last few years. These last few years are the most humbling I've ever had as a Laker fan. More than the 90s after Showtime and more than Shaq leaving... This is just unreal. These are the darkest days of the Laker franchise and I don't know if I'll ever forgive the Buss kids for letting it get this far... I'm just frustrated man.