Russell Westbrick Discussion: Clipper Gonna Clip

I’m not trying to argue anything against AD, he didn’t have a teammate that he was capable of winning it all until Lebron. And they won a ring.

Same way AD should get a concession, so should Russ. The years he had the talent around him to win, they made the finals or conference finals.

 

I'm not really into comparing CP3 with Westbrook. Both are great players in their won way.

I don't agree with this comment, because it implies that Russ couldn't get it done with KD when in fact injuries ruined their chances - just like it would have for CP3.

OKC
2011 - Conference Finals to Mavs
2012 - Finals to Heat
2013 - Russ knee injury (Beverly), KD loses 2nd round
2014 - Conference Finals to Spurs
2015 - KD foot injury
2016 - Conference Finals to GSW

Once again, this is debatable. CP3 had Blake Griffin during his MVP caliber years alongside DAJ, Reddick, Crawford and a bunch of good role players. And they couldn't get out of the second round. With Harden he made the conference finals once and last year he got a cake walk to the finals with the west decimated by injuries.

 

Yep. Yeah, well, that's my expectations as a Lakers fan.

I'm spoiled. . All good.

 

the difference here is you're saying "cp had blake griffin" and i'm saying "russ had kevin durant". injuries can only be blamed twice for russ, and more importantly, when he's been the unquestioned best player his teams have been worse than when paul has been. this is what the debate is about, imo. someone said it's hard to build a contender around russ, and i agreed. it's much easier to build one around paul.

and again, i'm curious: do you think westbrook has been as good an nba player as paul? is he now? i disagree strongly on both counts.

 

related to post above: kevin durant isn't the same as "another allstar" is my point. both players have been in both situations (with an all-time great and with not that). i'd argue paul never has been. (here's an unpopular take: paul was the best player on the houston teams, too)

and this argument is about russ vs. cp3, not russ vs AD, which is a much more interesting conversation (russ vs cp3 is sort of open and shut, imo).

 

I’m not really concerned with comparing the two. I’m over trying to rank all time greats, it’s just a pointless endeavour to me. But I do think it can be argued either way. At their best they’re legitimate MVPs.

I just think we can’t blame Russ for not winning it all when he had KD and Ibaka, while CP3 had Blake, DAJ, Reddick and Crawford. Because I genuinely believe those Clippers teams had better talent than OKC. Russ and KD were just that good they could carry a box of matchsticks to the conference finals.

 

Is he better then a league average PG?
I'm an admitted hater but is there any evidence that's he better then league average starting PG?

Like last nights game: he had a great 3rd quarter but he was awful across the board in the first half.
He's a below average man and help defender from what I see.
The advanced stats seem to back this up



He's 48th among qualified PG in offensive rating, 21st in defensive rating
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/stats/2022/Advanced_Stats/Qualified/drtg/PG/asc/1/Regular_Season

Hope this guy has the January bump

 

pretty crazy he can be a stat stuffing machine and advance stats say he's not impactful in a good way

 

Didn’t a bunch of us say pretty much these same words before we got him?

 

2 empty stat stuffing Robins on the same team SMH

 

we traded and let go of our championship window this off season. Our hustle guys and elite point guard defenders KCP, Caruso was the focal point of the number 1 defense in the league. Now our defense is like a dam with a sieve for a wall

 

Because Westbrook seems to be the scapegoat for our poor season, I thought I'd revisit his performance.

Through 33 games:

1. GSW - Bad
2. PHX - Average
3. MEM - Bad
4. SAS - Good
5. OKC - Bad
6. CLE - Good
7. HOU - Good
8. HOU - Good
9. OKC - Average
10. POR - Bad
11. CHA - Average
12. MIA - Good
13. MIN - Average
14. SAS - Average
15. CHI - Average
16. MIL - Good
17. BOS - Average
18. DET - Good
19. NYK - Good
20. IND - Good
21. SAC - Good
22. DET - Good
23. SAC - Good
24. LAC - Average
25. BOS - Good
26. MEM - Bad
27. OKC - Average
28. ORL - Average
29. DAL - Good
30. MIN - Average
31. CHI - Average
32. PHO - Average
33. SAS - Good

Good: 46%
Average: 39%
Bad: 15%

He improved his play a lot through the middle 10 games (Milwaukee to Boston). But since then, he has played relatively average. Alot of this has to do with his adjustment to being the third wheel and being more marginalised than normal. As an example in 4 of the 7 games before AD was injured, Westbrook had a lower usage, shot less than 10 field goal attempts a game and gave out much less assists.

It's going to be a challenge to get the best out of Westbrook as the third option especially as Lebron dominates the ball more.

Some of the things he has done well over the last 18 games;

• Roughly 2/3rds of his shots are coming at the rim or in the paint.
• He is shooting 64.7% on those shots at the rim
• He has lowered his 3pt attempts to 2 a game
• He is shooting 33.3% on 3's (was shooting 38% before the last 5 games) and 54.5% from the corners
• Shooting 49.1% overall

The whole spacing thing is overblown as is criticism of his shot selection. But turnovers and fit with Lebron continue to be a problem. They have a really good opportunity to figure that out over the next 4-6 weeks with AD out.

 

Great post

 

That’s a good point. In a vacuum Russ has played better than Kuz, KCP and Trez this season (in my opinion).

To me, the Caruso thing is a seperate affair to Westbrook because we could of kept him but chose not too. As is our roster construction, where we sacrificed defenders for shooters.

I also think we need to see what Nunn and Ariza can add because they’re our 6th and 7th best players. (If you rank Melo and THT above them) It’s ridiculous how many games our top 10 rotation has missed.

 

Too many missed layups and mistakes. I remember when we got Artest he made a lot of good plays and also made some really dumb plays too. You just hope he makes more good than bad. Today there was way too many and it cost us.

 

His motor and rebounding helped... but



f***ing A!

 

He's a league average PG at best who thinks he's a star and plays out of control because he thinks he still is a star.

Awful today
The last game great 3rd quarter after an awful first half.

Overall he isn't a 3rd star nor is he a bad player per se just a guy who gets routinely outplayed by the opposing PG