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Roy Hibbert Discussion 2015-16: No Buyout

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by LALakersFan4Life, Jul 4, 2015.

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gcclaker said: ↑

I don't have as much trepidation about the Philly game...
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No s***. This X10 from me the Okafor whiner.

LTLakerFan, Jul 6, 2015

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Man that was a solid read. Good find.

If he wants to score 10-12 points a game, that's fine with me and probably anyone here. No one is going to expect that from him. What we all want is that defense and smothered chickens from him. He does that, which even when, "Mr. Trash" is at worst he's still doing at an elite level, I think I speak for everyone that has seen our turn style defense, that he will get nothing but praise for it.

From the comments from David West to some other articles I've read on Bird's comments on West, etc. that FO is one big pile of D-Bags that are scapegoating players for their inadequacies.

Last edited: Jul 7, 2015

Doc Brown, Jul 6, 2015

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Magic Skywalker said: ↑

I've been a Hibbert defender from quite some time. Two years ago, when the Lakers were really bad and the Pacers good, they were pretty much my favorite team to watch, and even the year before that I was enjoying them a lot. You could say I've been rooting for them in the East for some time. And I always remember how people used to say Hibbert didn't step up or something because he didn't score that much. That he's a talented guy who's not maximizing his talent, while I always said that it's just the other way round. He's not that talented, but he's maximizing what he actually has (even if he did had some awful games in the 2014 Playoffs). You can't expect him to do what he did to Miami every night, that's just not him.

This article is recent (and by recent, I mean post-trade), comes from a Pacers source (Jared Wade from 8points9seconds):

Go look up “Roy Hibbert” on Twitter.

I’ll wait a moment.

That’s what you’ll roughly find. No need to add in “trash” or “sucks,” these are the standard responses people have in response to Roy Hibbert. In fact almost every time we have posted anything on Roy Hibbert since the tail end of the 2013-14 season, there was at least one “trade ’em” comment. Obviously when Roy is at his worst it is easy to say this and at least in this moment his critics are right.

But has he actually gotten any worse? I don’t think he did.

I think perception or even just foolish delusion created expectations for Roy Hibbert that he was never going meet.

Since emerging into a top-tier defender, Roy Hibbert has been best known for protecting the rim and popularizing the concept of verticality in the league. In 2013-14, opponents shot 41.1% at the basket when Hibbert was protecting the rim. This season, that rate rose to 42.4%. This isn’t a big change especially when you factor in how often he was playing without David West, George Hill or Paul George — not to mention never playing with Lance Stephenson.

He still is a steadfast defender who allowed Indiana to stick to Frank Vogel’s defensive plan of funneling shooters into the 7’2″ big man or letting them take mid-range shots. This strategy keeps Hibbert’s rebound totals low since he is so focused on other duties, but Indiana has long been one of the best defensive rebounding teams in the league and they still were last year, finishing second behind only the Charlotte Hornets, per NBA.com. Yes, it is fun to mock a man as big as Hibbert for not grabbing more missed shots, but that’s not his job. And other than his few truly wretched efforts — those zero/zero games in the 2014 playoffs — this doesn’t harm the team whatsoever.

Individually, there has been a slight rise in his defensive rating, as it went above 100 in 2014-15 for the first time in three years. But the increase wasn’t to the point you’d think Hibbert had fallen off the wagon as a defender. Other than the rare great 3-point shooting center, Hibbert could handle his business pretty well against almost anyone. But when could sit back and protect the rim, few in the NBA were doing it better.

So were people really expecting him to become a 20-point per a night menace?

Is that just because he is 7’2″?

According to a Forbes article you are 17% more likely to be in the NBA if you are 7-foot or taller it doesn’t mean you are going to be great at everything. There are only 42 players listed over 7-foot that played last season according to Real GM yet only 20 averaged over 10-points a game, including Roy Hibbert. It isn’t as simple as “Be tall, score points.” This isn’t 1991 anymore. Yes, Hibbert averaged 10.6 points a game last season, but that is not far below his career average of 11.1.

Most of the frustration seems to have came from the fact that without Paul George or Lance Stephenson to take away shooting chances, Roy Hibbert’s numbers stayed the same.

Candace Buckner summed it up in her eulogy to the Pacers’ smash-mouth identity.

While Buckner pointed out that Hibbert was playing at about the same level, others have jumped on the anti-Hibbert bandwagon with gusto.

Consider Indianapolis Star columnist Gregg Doyle’s Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde flip over the past week. Just a week ago he called for Indiana Pacers fans to calm down and stop embarrassing Indiana. His tune changed when Hibbert was traded.

He even closes out the line, “In other words, the anti-Hibbert way.”

But why?

In the 2013 conference finals, Hibbert averaged 22.1 points and 10.4 rebounds a game, but that had a lot to do with the fact the Miami Heat had no one to match-up against him. Those numbers weren’t really sustainable. That isn’t a knock on Hibbert. That’s just reality, as he has scored 20 or more points 61 times in his 533 games the Pacers.

So were fans expecting him to suddenly find an offensive game when he only scored 20+ point around 11.4% of the time. That’s just a little more than the chance Indiana had to get a top three pick in the draft this season. It would have been great for either to happen but the odds were not in Indiana’s favor.

So because he never lived up the expectations fans got what only happened 11% of the time he’s suddenly trash?

I don’t believe that.

It is easy to paint Roy Hibbert as the scapegoat, and why not? He wasn’t going to come back a year from now anyway. He’s headed to Los Angeles and it is easier to kick his a** on the way out.

But people forget so quickly how even the history of the smash-mouth era of Pacers basketball could have ended before it ever really got going if it weren’t for Hibbert.

Hibbert doesn’t block Carmelo Anthony’s dunk, and their 2013 second-round series against the Knicks ends up going to a Game 7 in New York. Maybe the Pacers lose and we don’t get a great Eastern Conference finals against the Heat?

Hibbert was never suppose to be an offensive scoring machine for Indiana. He was there to block and alter shots. Indiana’s entire defensive plan has been based around that. If Hibbert wasn’t Hibbert then it doesn’t work.

If you want Hibbert to be your scapegoat for Indiana’s problems go ahead. But just because he didn’t live up to that 3.7%, it doesn’t mean he was trash and you would be foolish to think that.

The Lakers terrible defense will get better with him guarding the paint and he will still probably score 10 points a game or more. The smash-mouth approach Indiana had in recent years was powered by Hibbert and West, but with it came a much slower pace. Indiana wanted to get faster and quicker and Hibbert wasn’t going to fit that mold.

Hibbert never changed, and the Pacers did. The Pacers are changing their approach to basketball and Roy Hibbert’s lack of offense doesn’t fit with Bird’s plan and that’s fine. It was time for Hibbert to leave and take his top-level rim protection with him.

The Pacers are headed one direction, he’s headed another.

Let’s just leave it at that.

http://8points9seconds.com/2015/07/06/roy-hibbert-the-indiana-pacers-scapegoat/
Click to expand...

LOVE this article

pretty much sums up what some have been saying on here

maybe his time in indiana ran out like gasol's did here

change of scenery could do a lot for him

if he's as "terrible" as they make him out to be then its a 1 yr contract no biggie

but if he anchors our defense and gives us a few points a game then we'll be golden

his offensive game is not what we need we have guys that can score, as for rebounds if he plays alongisde randle i expect randle to be getting rebounds so hibbert can focus on defense

im sure that russell will find a way to get him shot opportunities and he may be get a lot of points off and-1's

some of us were willing to max out deandre who most say is a 1 dimensional player so if hibbert can provide equal to or better defense this is a win for us

still only 28 years old, plenty left in the tank and with a solid season would earn an extension

jerryr88, Jul 6, 2015

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Magic Skywalker said: ↑

I've been a Hibbert defender from quite some time. Two years ago, when the Lakers were really bad and the Pacers good, they were pretty much my favorite team to watch, and even the year before that I was enjoying them a lot. You could say I've been rooting for them in the East for some time. And I always remember how people used to say Hibbert didn't step up or something because he didn't score that much. That he's a talented guy who's not maximizing his talent, while I always said that it's just the other way round. He's not that talented, but he's maximizing what he actually has (even if he did had some awful games in the 2014 Playoffs). You can't expect him to do what he did to Miami every night, that's just not him.

This article is recent (and by recent, I mean post-trade), comes from a Pacers source (Jared Wade from 8points9seconds):

Go look up “Roy Hibbert” on Twitter.

I’ll wait a moment.

That’s what you’ll roughly find. No need to add in “trash” or “sucks,” these are the standard responses people have in response to Roy Hibbert. In fact almost every time we have posted anything on Roy Hibbert since the tail end of the 2013-14 season, there was at least one “trade ’em” comment. Obviously when Roy is at his worst it is easy to say this and at least in this moment his critics are right.

But has he actually gotten any worse? I don’t think he did.

I think perception or even just foolish delusion created expectations for Roy Hibbert that he was never going meet.

Since emerging into a top-tier defender, Roy Hibbert has been best known for protecting the rim and popularizing the concept of verticality in the league. In 2013-14, opponents shot 41.1% at the basket when Hibbert was protecting the rim. This season, that rate rose to 42.4%. This isn’t a big change especially when you factor in how often he was playing without David West, George Hill or Paul George — not to mention never playing with Lance Stephenson.

He still is a steadfast defender who allowed Indiana to stick to Frank Vogel’s defensive plan of funneling shooters into the 7’2″ big man or letting them take mid-range shots. This strategy keeps Hibbert’s rebound totals low since he is so focused on other duties, but Indiana has long been one of the best defensive rebounding teams in the league and they still were last year, finishing second behind only the Charlotte Hornets, per NBA.com. Yes, it is fun to mock a man as big as Hibbert for not grabbing more missed shots, but that’s not his job. And other than his few truly wretched efforts — those zero/zero games in the 2014 playoffs — this doesn’t harm the team whatsoever.

Individually, there has been a slight rise in his defensive rating, as it went above 100 in 2014-15 for the first time in three years. But the increase wasn’t to the point you’d think Hibbert had fallen off the wagon as a defender. Other than the rare great 3-point shooting center, Hibbert could handle his business pretty well against almost anyone. But when could sit back and protect the rim, few in the NBA were doing it better.

So were people really expecting him to become a 20-point per a night menace?

Is that just because he is 7’2″?

According to a Forbes article you are 17% more likely to be in the NBA if you are 7-foot or taller it doesn’t mean you are going to be great at everything. There are only 42 players listed over 7-foot that played last season according to Real GM yet only 20 averaged over 10-points a game, including Roy Hibbert. It isn’t as simple as “Be tall, score points.” This isn’t 1991 anymore. Yes, Hibbert averaged 10.6 points a game last season, but that is not far below his career average of 11.1.

Most of the frustration seems to have came from the fact that without Paul George or Lance Stephenson to take away shooting chances, Roy Hibbert’s numbers stayed the same.

Candace Buckner summed it up in her eulogy to the Pacers’ smash-mouth identity.

While Buckner pointed out that Hibbert was playing at about the same level, others have jumped on the anti-Hibbert bandwagon with gusto.

Consider Indianapolis Star columnist Gregg Doyle’s Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde flip over the past week. Just a week ago he called for Indiana Pacers fans to calm down and stop embarrassing Indiana. His tune changed when Hibbert was traded.

He even closes out the line, “In other words, the anti-Hibbert way.”

But why?

In the 2013 conference finals, Hibbert averaged 22.1 points and 10.4 rebounds a game, but that had a lot to do with the fact the Miami Heat had no one to match-up against him. Those numbers weren’t really sustainable. That isn’t a knock on Hibbert. That’s just reality, as he has scored 20 or more points 61 times in his 533 games the Pacers.

So were fans expecting him to suddenly find an offensive game when he only scored 20+ point around 11.4% of the time. That’s just a little more than the chance Indiana had to get a top three pick in the draft this season. It would have been great for either to happen but the odds were not in Indiana’s favor.

So because he never lived up the expectations fans got what only happened 11% of the time he’s suddenly trash?

I don’t believe that.

It is easy to paint Roy Hibbert as the scapegoat, and why not? He wasn’t going to come back a year from now anyway. He’s headed to Los Angeles and it is easier to kick his a** on the way out.

But people forget so quickly how even the history of the smash-mouth era of Pacers basketball could have ended before it ever really got going if it weren’t for Hibbert.

Hibbert doesn’t block Carmelo Anthony’s dunk, and their 2013 second-round series against the Knicks ends up going to a Game 7 in New York. Maybe the Pacers lose and we don’t get a great Eastern Conference finals against the Heat?

Hibbert was never suppose to be an offensive scoring machine for Indiana. He was there to block and alter shots. Indiana’s entire defensive plan has been based around that. If Hibbert wasn’t Hibbert then it doesn’t work.

If you want Hibbert to be your scapegoat for Indiana’s problems go ahead. But just because he didn’t live up to that 3.7%, it doesn’t mean he was trash and you would be foolish to think that.

The Lakers terrible defense will get better with him guarding the paint and he will still probably score 10 points a game or more. The smash-mouth approach Indiana had in recent years was powered by Hibbert and West, but with it came a much slower pace. Indiana wanted to get faster and quicker and Hibbert wasn’t going to fit that mold.

Hibbert never changed, and the Pacers did. The Pacers are changing their approach to basketball and Roy Hibbert’s lack of offense doesn’t fit with Bird’s plan and that’s fine. It was time for Hibbert to leave and take his top-level rim protection with him.

The Pacers are headed one direction, he’s headed another.

Let’s just leave it at that.

http://8points9seconds.com/2015/07/06/roy-hibbert-the-indiana-pacers-scapegoat/
Click to expand...

LTLakerFan, Jul 6, 2015

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jerryr88 said: ↑

LOVE this article

pretty much sums up what some have been saying on here

maybe his time in indiana ran out like gasol's did here

change of scenery could do a lot for him

if he's as "terrible" as they make him out to be then its a 1 yr contract no biggie

but if he anchors our defense and gives us a few points a game then we'll be golden

his offensive game is not what we need we have guys that can score, as for rebounds if he plays alongisde randle i expect randle to be getting rebounds so hibbert can focus on defense

im sure that russell will find a way to get him shot opportunities and he may be get a lot of points off and-1's

some of us were willing to max out deandre who most say is a 1 dimensional player so if hibbert can provide equal to or better defense this is a win for us

still only 28 years old, plenty left in the tank and with a solid season would earn an extension
Click to expand...

Not to mention that Hibbert has a pretty nice Big Man offensive game. Left hand, right hand hooks and jams. Short J's with good touch and can hit his FT's. I'm sky high on Roy with a huge chip on his shoulder seeking redemption in a contract year with a team he's going to want to be on next year, I would imagine with all the guys that will get him the ball.

LTLakerFan, Jul 6, 2015

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LTLakerFan said: ↑

No s***. This X10 from me the Okafor whiner.
Click to expand...

I was an Okafor supporter and I won't lie that I was disappointed. At least Laker brass recovered very nicely with the Hibbert transaction. Oh...we don't whine around here. We're "conscientious objectors" so to speak...

gcclaker, Jul 6, 2015

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No, I have a tendency to whine.....

LTLakerFan, Jul 6, 2015

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Doc Brown said: ↑

Man that was a solid read. Good find.

If he wants to score 10-12 points a game, that's fine with me and probably anyone here. No one is going to expect that from him. What we all want is that defense and smothered chickens from him. He does that, which even when, "Mr. Trash" is at worst he's still doing at an elite level, I think I speak for everyone that has seen are turn style defense, that he will get nothing but praise for it.

From the comments from David West to some other articles I've read on Bird's comments on West, etc. that FO is one big pile of D-Bags that are scapegoating players for their inadequacies.
Click to expand...

Yeah my immediate thought when we get Hibbert was excitement about finally having a defensive minded guy inside. Bynum was a good defender inside, but it wasn't really his cup of tea. Howard is an afterthought and his defense is overrated. This is legitimately a good defensive Center who can provide a little offense as well.

The fact that West left the organization willingly and defended Hibbert on the way out basically said all I needed to know. I'm ready to embrace Hibbs. I think he and Julius should really fit well together once they get rolling.

therealdeal, Jul 6, 2015

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Hibbert and Bass are going to be a THICK. SOLID. force inside.

Both are defensive minded guys who will really instill a defensive mindset on our guys. As seniors on this team, I hope they take the lead and be vocal with the young cats to step it up.

lakerfan2, Jul 6, 2015

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Wanna know how bad it is in Indy? David West walked away from 12 million to play or the vet minimum elsewhere. Let's, uhh, treat Roy really well, so that in 3 years we can re-unite PG/Roy again.

Doc Brown, Jul 6, 2015

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I see you workin' ^^^

LTLakerFan, Jul 6, 2015

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That was a great read, and the more I have read about his "lack" of rebounding, the less concern I have over it. Its easy to see why he is their scapegoat.

JLaker17, Jul 6, 2015

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Doc Brown said: ↑

Wanna know how bad it is in Indy? David West walked away from 12 million to play or the vet minimum elsewhere. Let's, uhh, treat Roy really well, so that in 3 years we can re-unite PG/Roy again.
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It's too bad Paul signed such a long extension, he should have negotiated an out clause for next summer, even if it was just to re-negotiate his contract when the cap increased.

Aonex, Jul 6, 2015

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Also too bad that, by some accounts, PG had a lady friend mix up with Hibbs.

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ZenMaster said: ↑

Also too bad that, by some accounts, PG had a lady friend mix up with Hibbs.
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It must be water under the bridge or not true because he just posted some pics of himself, Roy and DWest thanking them for the good times and calling Roy his big brother.

Doc Brown, Jul 6, 2015

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PG was too busy getting catfished by dudes.

lakerswiz, Jul 6, 2015

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@Doc Brown man i was just looking up when PG's deal is up in Indy....and I was bummed to see it's not for another 3 years...but hey, by then, Russell will be a superstar, Randle will be an all star, clarkson will be an all star, and Hibbs will be Pau Gasol-ing it with our young guys....PG13 will wanna join our squad for sure.

fabfourlakers, Jul 6, 2015

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^ we'll have KD by that time (honestly though, i think he'll either stay at OKC or go to WAS) .

Kenzo, Jul 7, 2015

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fabfourlakers said: ↑

@Doc Brown man i was just looking up when PG's deal is up in Indy....and I was bummed to see it's not for another 3 years...but hey, by then, Russell will be a superstar, Randle will be an all star, clarkson will be an all star, and Hibbs will be Pau Gasol-ing it with our young guys....PG13 will wanna join our squad for sure.
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Kosstick, Jul 7, 2015

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therealdeal said: ↑

Well they're not exactly getting a young stud from us in the trade, so that'd make sense.

I think Ryan Kelly would do well over there though.
Click to expand...

He definitely fits the stereotype for Indy with white players.

I think Hibbert was made the scapegoat largely because of how that team was constructed. They had no real #1 option except PG for half a season. They depended on PG, West, Hibbert carrying the offense when they got the hot hand. Here he's got the ultimate alpha dog in Kobe, alpha in training in Randle, Clarkson who could already be a 20 PPG scorer if his 3PT shot improved as much as speculated, the microwave off the bench Lou, and DAR who has greatness written all over him. All he has to do is focus on that outstanding rim protection and finish the easy lobs and dives that come his way and we'll be thrilled with him.

LakersIn4, Jul 7, 2015

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