good work, vasashi. very interesting that george could stand to make a bundle long-term if he opts in and is traded. but again, the complication is that george's opt-in date is probably ahead of july 1, right?
The only correction I'd have is I'm fairly sure that we don't receive a TPE if we move Deng into someone else's cap space since we're already below the cap no? I might be wrong on that. Either way this is an excellent explanation of what @Khmrp brought up. This move is highly beneficial for us and would obviously help Oklahoma too. The only person it doesn't immediately help is Paul George because he doesn't get his full 30% of the cap until a year later. I'm also not sure he'd qualify for the veteran designated player exception after the trade. He needs to make an All-NBA team. Also, I'm not sure he can be traded twice and still qualify. That being said, if we sign him as a FA this summer his starting salary is bumped up to roughly 30.6 million and his contract is about 4/131 million. However, if we trade for him and retain his Bird Rights he can sign an extension (even if it's not the designated player exception) worth roughly 158 million (137ish + his current salary). Whatever max deal he signs this summer will end with him being 33 or 34 years old so I'm not sure he or his agent should expect a second max deal. Might as well get the most money you can in that time frame.
@sirronstuff @abeer3 @therealdeal thx for the love fellas! Abeer: June 29th is the deadline for George to opt in. Recall CP3 had a similar deadline last summer and got traded on June 28th. The thing with that scenario is that Houston had only 16M in cap space and could not trade for CP3's 24.3M outright without making those lesser deals for cash (ie Liggins, Kelly etc.) to aggregate along with Lou, Beverley and Dekkar to complete the CP3 deal. They also sent a 1st round pick in that deal. And now we have the Cavs pick if we want to do something similar with PG, but we will have no restrictions in doing so, compared to what Morey had to do with CP3 last summer. Real: The Pacers already designated George, so those designated rights get transferred along with his bird rights in any trade. So once he gets traded to us, we acquire those rights. Plus there is no doubt that at least for this season, he will most likely make one of the 3 All NBA teams, which secures his requirement to retain his designated player status. Also George's status as a designated player expires in 2018, so it actually would be more beneficial to him to opt into his final year and retain that status so that we can acquire him and extend him at 35% for 5 years (bringing his entire contract to 6 years in length). He would be sacrificing around 10M in year 1 of that scenario, but he would be making it back and then some with that extension since if he signed outright as a free agent (opting out and losing his bird rights and designated player status), he would only see 30% of the cap as his max with 5% annual increases as opposed to 35% of the cap as his max with 8% annual increases. In terms of Deng, I believe we would get a TPE since we would have Jules cap hold in place, while trading for George and giving LaBron our remaining cap. Then we would match any offer sheet Jules signs, essentially putting us over the cap. Then we trade Deng into someone else's cap space and we would gain a TPE. Again, I'll try to research this further when I get the time, but apologies if anything is incorrect.
I'll take your word for it on the Designated Player front. I just wasn't sure it could handle two trades. The wording on the requirements is that you have to a) be on an All-NBA team 2/3 years or the latest season, b) have played for at least 7 years to get an extension, and c) be with the team that drafted you or the one that traded for you within the terms of the rookie deal. That last bit confuses me, but I'll take your word on it. Regarding Deng: it would depend on timing. If we trade for George, we need to renounce our cap holds on Pope and Lopez (easy call). That leaves us with the cap holds for Thomas, Frye, and Randle along with George, Deng, Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, Zubac, and Bryant. We're still under the cap though by about 4-5 million or so. If then we sign LeBron at 35 million, we'd need to waive Deng and the rest of our cap holds (sans Randle) which would still leave us under the cap. If we were to trade Deng, unless it was the very first thing we did, we'd be under the cap the whole time so we wouldn't get a TPE for it.
Renounce the rights to everybody except Jules... Jules cap hold, Deng still on the books and our guaranteed contracts (sans Ennis, but the Cavs pick taking his place) = about 52M Trade for George who opts in = 73M Assuming Bron takes a cut in his true max, that's about 30M going to him (with a projected cap of 102-103M) That puts us right at the cap, without matching Jules yet. Once we match Jules, we're over the cap and that means if we trade Deng, we get a TPE. Still, if LaBron wants a larger slice of the cap, then stretching Deng gives him his true max and we would have roughly 5M more in cap plus the room exception. Per Larry Coon: However, lets assume we can't place a designated veteran player status on George due to being traded this last year, its still to his benefit to get traded to us since that allows us to gain his Bird rights and he's looking at 8% annual increases in pay as opposed to 5% if he were to opt out and join us as a free agent.
Two flaws: 1) LeBron ain't taking a pay cut and 2) I think that page from Larry is older right? It says "Indiana Paul George". And if LeBron takes his full max and we waive, Deng that's the scenario I see the most likely, BUT we won't get a TPE. That's my main point: I don't think we can be below the cap and get a TPE. We'd just trade Deng out and get nothing but cap space back.
Why do you in some posts acknowledge the established precedent for super teams and even LBJ himself taking a little less to keep a better roster together and now say that he's not taking a pay cut. He damn well better help out here along with George and Randle himself, plus for depth we'll need from talented and inexpensive youth we have already signed.
I would love if he would, but we should never plan for it. That's why I want to trade away Deng so badly. If we trade away Deng, nobody has to take a pay cut at all.
Well he f****** ought to. Did it in Miami along with Wade and Bosh, and I believe you said a little bit as well coming back to Cleveland (?) and Durant did it last year. How greedy and short sighted can you be with the amount of wealth he has already accumulated and more going forward especially in L.A .... if he won't. Talking to him not you here. I understand what you said about not planning on it.
@therealdeal LaBron has taken less than his true max before so there is precedence that he could do it again. His last contract was 3 years 100M which was the max allowed to him (via early bird rights), but when he first got to Miami, he sacrificed his true max and when he came back to Cleveland, he took less to facilitate moves that brought in Love and rounded out the roster. In year 1 in LA, I could sincerely see him doing the same thing. The Larry Coon reference I sourced is for the current version of the CBA. The Pacers gave him designated player status in order to offer him an extension, but then traded him instead. I'm not completely sure if that status was transferred to OKC and then in turn to us if we trade for him. But irregardless of the designated player designation, trading for George gets him paid more via his bird rights, so it would be in George's best interest to do so. It would be in OKC's best interest to do so in order to acquire a TPE and possibly other assets we send them. Its in LA's best interest since we have more cap maneuverability in trading for George. In terms of Deng, we would gain a TPE if we trade for George, sign LaBron, match Jules's offer sheet and then trade Deng, cause by the time we trade him, we would be over the cap of 102-3M. Gaining a TPE for Deng would be very resourceful in that we would be able to trade for a disgruntled 2nd tier star later in the year to pair with LaBron and George. Or lets say we send out a re-upped Jules for a 3rd star, then we'll have that TPE to round out our roster. We have our 2019 first round pick to use in sweetening any trade next season.
Eh. To be honest, I'm in the "get what you can" camp. For instance, I'm not mad at Deng for taking the money. I'm mad at him for not contributing to the team, but if someone offered me 18 million to play in the NBA, I'd take it. I'd be terrible, but that's not my problem. They offered me the money! If we want LeBron, the key is being able to offer him the max. It's up to him to either take it or give us the break so we can get other pieces. If we trade Deng though, we can give him his max AND get other pieces AND keep Randle. It would be a massive deal for us.
That's all for him to get other max players though. I don't see him doing it so that we can re-sign Julius Randle for instance. If he took less so that we could get Anthony Davis, then yes I think that's in play otherwise I just can't count on it happening man. Yeah, the only point I'm not sure about is whether the designation sticks with him past a second trade. It doesn't matter though because like you said, we can offer him the 7.5% raises which would help make up for the one-season opt in. But that's only IF LeBron takes less than his max which I don't want to rely on. We can do it this way, but soooo many factors come into it. We have to trade for George and sign LeBron all before Randle goes to another team and we have to find a team that still has room to take on Deng after the few days it'll take to make all that happen. I think there's just too many factors at play. A TPE would be nice though.
As opposed to "getting what we want". And our judgment of them if they do refuse to agree on something we think is ideal is on us, not on them. Sent from my E6533 using Tapatalk
