You know we are deep into the offseason when we are discussing Carmelo Anthony and the OKC Thunder in depth.
Sorry real I haven't worked out how to multi quote on mobile yet. - I meant it's irrelevant to my point, whether he caused the situations or not doesn't change the fact that he hasn't had enough talent around him to be successful in the NBA and mainly the playoffs. If he had lebrons supporting cast, I hazard a guess that he wins a ring or two himself. Maybe they even win against the mavs that year. (I'm not saying he is as good a player as lebron so hopefully no one twists this, it's purely comparing the talent surrounding the two) - Westbrooks best offensive player (oladipo was injured a fair bit) was Kanter coming off the bench (who injured himself too). Before durant left, his and Westbrook's usage was similar in each season, they were the 1a and 1b of the team. For good reason they are both top 5 or 10 at worst players in the league. To me it's such a myth that durant and westbrook didn't work or struggled with touches etc, they were a perennial WCF team and the only reason they didn't make more finals and win some rings is because of injuries, choking in their final year up 3-1 and just meeting an all time offensive Spurs team in 2014. So in my mind, westbrook has shown he can be successful with other great players. Why would he relent after his historical season? Because westbrook seems like the kind of guy that values winning and for all his heavy lifting last season you know he wasn't happy to lose in the playoffs like that. - I think Melo has been unhappy in NY largely because Phil was trying to kick him out the door the whole time. Publicly saying he should move on etc. He has been happy enough when playing with Porzingis - who by the way loves Melo and his play and leadership. - I can't rightly say if he will be content as a 3rd option just as you can't rightfully say he wouldn't be. I use team USA as an example to say that with higher talent he can play the right way, and your argument is that he hasn't so far in his career - my retort to that is he hasn't had anyone around him worth deferring too and where the team would benefit more when playing offensively through someone else. Whether he will or won't be content to defer we can only speculate. This season we will find out if he gets traded to Hou or Okc. - I don't think Paul George will be regulated, maybe in the regular season he is content with slightly less workload, but come playoff time he is probably the first option. Or at least on par with Westbrook. Most of this is largely speculative anyways, chances are greater that Melo ends up in Houston. But great players find a way to make it work for the chance to win. I think melo on OKC is top 2 in the league, they have a chance to be top 5 defensively and offensively.
First round fodder is a bit of an exaggeration when your second best player for most of his time in Denver was Andre Miller or a hobbled Marcus Camby. Plus they mainly lost to the Spurs and Lakers most of those years where one of us went on to the finals each year. When he got an all star in Billups next to him, he made it to the WCF. I'm not sure why that's used against him. We saw Kobe's success rate when his second best player was Odom. In the NBA you can't win alone, it's just a fact. You need two proper all stars at the very least and usually three to be a contender. We saw how successful Pau was before Kobe, with him he played like the best PF in the league and made 3 straight finals. Talent wins rings in this league.
Billups wasn't lebron, you dont think it odd that the exact same den team lead by Melo were perenial 1st rd losers and all of a sudden 1 yr of Billups takes them to WCF? Billups at that point was already a becoming a semi decent vet journeyman, he was some prime time all-star at that point.
Billups averaged 20/4/7 in the playoffs that year as a second option with a TS%66, shot 46% from 3, played great defence and ran the tempo perfectly while averaging just under 40 mins. That's pretty good for a second option. Melo averaged 27/6/4 on a TS%56. That year both guys got it done. Their supporting cast was Kenyon Martin, JR Smith and Nene, at the time nothing special but serviceable players. And that's the best help Melo got and they made it to the WCF, where they lost to our (unstoppable that year) team 4-2. They played pretty good and had us tied up 2-2 and were in it in game 5 up till the end.
you're still side stepping my point, same team with Melo the yr before 1st rd loser, very next yr WCF and again BIllups wasn't even in his prime nor was he some super star like Lebron
Aren't you sort of hurting your case with this argument though? If it all it took was Billups to help get Melo to the WCF, imagine what he could do in his prime if he played next to Westbrook and George. I don't really care about this argument, but you kinda lost me there.
no, my argument is Melo is not a winning player, then and now. He's just sorta there to me, in NY billups helps them get to 2nd rd, soon as he gone they're right back into the crapper. Melo stats are as empty as Loves were when he was in Minn with those epic averages.
I just provided you reasoning on why they made the WCF that year - they both played great and it was the first time he had a positive second player next to him. The year before in 2008 with iverson, they lost to us in 4 and we were a finals team. They had no spacing and we just packed the paint. In 2007 playoffs it was the same deal, they ran into SAS - eventual champions, had no good players outside of Melo and lost. If we go back any further Melo is 21 and younger - unrealistic to expect someone to be winning at that age when their second best player is Andre Miller. I've also given you the break down of his time in NY and the injuries that ravaged their chances. Literally Melo has mostly met champions/finals contenders year in year out alone without help, and his one good team mate over his whole career in the playoffs was Billups in 2008 where he lost to us in the WCF. Like I said, you can't win without talent. It's that simple.
Billups wasn't in NY when they made the second round. It was Melo with Pablo Prigioni and Raymond Felton as his back court. He had Tyson chandler as his second best player that year (Tyson dealt with injuries that season too) and no one averaged above 14 pts. Melo averaged 29/7, lost to Indiana - who took the heat to 7 in the WCF.
I've got a previous engagement, but I'll post responses soon. Or I'll just drop it because I'm too lazy. We'll just have to wait and see!
Weezy was right haha, it's getting deep into the off season! I don't know about anyone else but I just want to see GSW and KD lose. Joining your main rival when they went 73/9 in the regular season and you were leading 3-1 just doesn't sit well with me, it's kind of ruined the competitiveness of the league. So I'm interested if any of the second tier teams can make moves to challenge them over the next 2-3 years before we make some kind of comeback.
anyone except houston. i can't stand that franchise. it's mostly morey and harden that drive my disdain. i can't abide good things happening for them. i'm fine with okc. it would actually be sort of gorgeous if they got anthony and unseated gs. bad for us, though.
Honestly, I think we have the best chance of challenging them in the next 2-3 years. It means Ball and Ingram have to turn into studs and we for sure get PG-13 next season, but after we get PG-13 we can get Lebron (enough to really make them sweat) or we can get Klay a season later (we get better and they get worse).
