If the main reason you don't want to trade for PG is because you have dreams of trading for Westbrook, then no wonder you don't seem to agree with others who are just focusing on what is very much realistic rather than focusing on what is honestly a pipe dream at this point. Also Westbrook, that "real 1st option on a team", is on a 32-25 Thunder team. .561 winning percentage. In the 3 seasons where PG was healthy and leading the Pacers, he is 130-91. .588 winning percentage.
PG is not an animated demonstrative leader. so in the big picture, He's a 1b star. He would still thrive and excel beside a 1A star IMHO. You never hear anything bad about the guy, but you also don't see him on regular highlights like you might see a Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, etc. Definitely not a showy guy. But classy, hard working, plays both ends, and has the respect of Kobe. Nuff said.
No problem man let me clarify the Detroit comment. The pacers were a scrappy defensive team, they made the conference finals twice. Their defense was down to having a great team scheme with a lot of good defensive players and their offense was a team effort. Paul George was clearly not carrying ALL the offensive load, they had 5 players or just about averaging double figures: 2013/2014: 1. Paul George 17.4 pts 2. David West 17.1 pts 3. George Hill 14.2 pts 4. Roy Hibbert 11.9 pts 5. Lance Stephenson 8.8 pts 2014/2015: 1. Paul George 21.7 pts 2. David West 14.0 pts 3. Lance Stephenson 13.8 pts 4. Roy Hibbert 10.8 pts 5. George Hill 10.3 pts Now I would argue that the Pacers struggled to score because, in part, Paul George isn't the best scorer. If you take the scenario of Westbrook and George being in similar spots. Westbrook is leading the league in scoring and anytime Durant was out, Westbrook carried the load. George can't do that, he is a 20 pts a game scorer on decent efficiency. In fact, Westbrook and George's TS% and EFG% is practically the same, but Westbrook gives you an extra 10 pts a game. Not to mention George is in the EAST. If Westbrook is in the East, he is a top 4 seed right now. If you take into account the easier schedule for east teams because of the level of quality opponents, Westbrook is probably taking this Thunder team to a third seed. When you compare their rosters, George has Teague (a past All-Star), Turner, Young, Al Jefferson, Monta Ellis and CJ Miles. While Westbrook has Oladipo, Adams and Kanter. I don't know about you, but I would rather the pacer's supporting cast. So that leaves Westbrook with a vastly superior performance to George. Kawhi & George were similar over the last two years in a lot of ways. Great defenders, good scorers - but Kawhi was always more efficient. This year, Kawhi has gone to another level. He has become dominant on the offensive end and one of the better scorers in the league. His efficiency is on a whole other level compared to George. George is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, while Kawhi is the best. I'm not going to argue over Cousins as he hasn't achieved much, but there is no doubt he is a better scorer, better rebounder and a better distributor than George. Plus he is a good defender when locked in, and because bigs are more valuable to defense than perimeter defenders it's not a total white-wash to George's side on that end either. AD is the same situation, better scorer, and better rebounder, just as good at distributing. And because bigs matter so much on defense, he can make a huge impact with his steals and blocks - although he has a lot to improve on the defensive end no doubt. It's really hard for me to put George above Harden, because he's one of the best offensive players, if not the best, in the league. He can drop a 35pts/8rbds/15ast stat-line on any given night and regardless of the defensive end, that's just a force of nature - a player being involved in creating 70pts for his team. That's almost as much as the pacers use to average as a team haha! In some ways CP3 is similar to Harden, what he gives up on the offensive end compared to Harden, he makes up by being a better defender. No doubt Wiggins hopes to be a George level player. But KAT will be superior to George by next season, if he isn't already. I was merely saying that in a matchup, they have the better player (will end up MVP quality) and an All-Star that will probably be George's level. You can have George on the level of Blake. I see George somewhere on that next level with a mixture of: Butler, Derozan, Lowry, Wall, Aldridge, Klay Thompson, Irving, Love, Marc Gasol, Hayward, Isaiah Thomas (although he is playing at a MVP level right now). So my original point, George isn't a first option to me and he isn't a dominant MVP. The teams above us have better first options and sometimes they have two better first options. Trading for him won't get it done, but him signing on as an FA is absolutely great alongside a legit MVP 1st option.
Then we're typing essays to split hairs. You don't consider him a "dominant MVP" which honestly I can't imagine the difference between that an regular MVP but you admit he'd make a great addition. I don't think anybody looks at Paul as the end game. There's plenty more left to do. The key would be surrounding Paul with other talent which is why keeping the pick is so vital. If we keep the pick we can package it with another one of the kids and Indy can be lucky they got that offer for an expiring player threatening to leave.
Those are actually 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 stats. The 2014-2015 season was the one where George was out for all but 6 games due to injury. Where the team only won 38 games and missed the playoffs entirely. Mind you in 2012-2013, George was only a 3rd year player and it was his first time out from under Granger's shadow. He only took 14.9 shots a game that season, which ranked 23rd in the league. So the balance in that scoring had more to do with George still being young and still developing as a scorer in the NBA. As evidenced by the shift in the subsequent seasons to him being the clear #1 scorer. In the end though, I agree with @therealdeal. We are nitpicking a bit here. While I think George can be a #1 on a strong team - because he already has been - I definitely would look to add talent alongside him.
I was replying to purp n gold's 'dominant' comment, I didn't use that terminology by myself. For me, George isn't on the MVP level of players. He is an all-star and if we are going to make a trade, I'd prefer to trade for an MVP player. I suggested Westbrook because he seems the most obtainable at the moment. Also, those laughing at my trade suggestion, when OKC gets bounced in the first round and Westbrook is an expiring, you don't think a trade with: 1 of Russell or Ingram (our more elite prospects) Randle (good prospect) 1 of Clarkson or Nance (decent prospects) Top 3 Pick Houston's 1st Would at least make them take a look? That's 5 young pieces. A rebuilding team can't ask for much more when trading a star. Also Westbrook worked fine with Durant and Harden. No one seemed to complain about Kobe's usage in 05/06 when he had a poor supporting cast around him. Not to mention, Westbrook is averaging 10+ assists, with better players around him he would be an even more willing passer. Westbrook would be 4th seed in the East right now and with a strength of schedule in the East being easier, they'd probably be third. With George's supporting cast, maybe even better. Hard to argue against that. To be clear - I wouldn't mind trading for any MVP calibre player, not just Westbrook.
I'd prefer to trade for an MVP player as well but who exactly is available right now that fits that criteria? Outside of luring Chris Paul as a free agent anyhow. I wasn't laughing at your trade suggestion. I was calling the idea of trading for Westbrook in general a pipe dream right now. We know Paul George wants to come to LA. We know Paul George is somewhat available via trade - and most likely will be this summer. We know George can be a free agent in 2018, rather than 2019 with Westbrook - where he can get that massive mega-extension from OKC that George might not from Indy. George is a realistic target worth discussing right now. Westbrook isn't yet. The smart play is you acquire George and then if Russ becomes available, you go after him too and you could have both. But getting George is the right first step and then see what comes after, be it Russ or someone else.
I don't want to derail this thread too much, so I won't continue posting about that pacers team after this. But I do believe that the Pacers success had a lot to do with their defensive scheme and team chemistry. They were never a good offensive team. As the leading scorer of the team, some of that is on you and I don't think George is a great scorer. That's why I mentioned them being built closer to a detroit team with the idea of a team effort on both sides, rather than an early millennium lakers team where Shaq and Kobe dominated. Another point about the pacers team, they started of super hot and then they got extremely rattled that year. Hibbert disappeared when they signed Bynum and the team fell apart around Lance's antics. They went 21-19 after new year when they were making all kinds of statements about home court earlier in the season etc. If George was the level everyone says he is, he should of been able to carry some of that slack.
I would argue he carried all that slack. He shouldn't be held responsible for Hibbert breaking down mentally. I'd respond with lengthier stuff, but @EddieEddie is doing all the work for me.
Are we positioned well for the recruitment of PG in FA or what? In addition to new superstar recruiters Rob Pelinka and Luke Walton into the equation in charge of it all now comes Magic additionally with the magnetism and business smarts and instincts he brings. Then for the final pitch, who other but the Closer Kobe Bryant himself who is PG's idol?
Compared to Mitch, Jim, and a video by Tobey McGuire. Looking back on it, that stuff is even more embarrassing. I mean, I understand utilizing stars in a market like this but it's usually backed up by... something. Some sort of plan. Some sort of vision of the future. The fact we went in there with nothing but Adam Lavine in a uniform is really, really embarrassing. Now you get Pelinka to give you the numbers, Luke to give you the strategy, and Magic to close the deal with charisma and extracurricular opportunities. I really believe the rumors I've heard that agents and players are looking at LA with interest again.
