Yes, there are also other aspects to this which I didn't mention before: When you build through the draft then you have to COMMIT to developing talent (without excuses) and then you sign the stars at the right time and commit to winning. Can't do both at the same time as they contradict each other. The Lakers have been trying to do both and have failed in epic fashion at both. It also takes a coach that is good at both and on the same page with the FO, which is difficult in itself because championship coaches usually aren't the most patient or feel the need to develop teenagers. The coach is constantly caught between 2 chairs...be patient with youngsters and manage egos of stars...be good at xs and os but also be able to feel the game and allow the players to play freely..be a good coach for a lottery team and a good coach for a championship team (which I think are 2 different type of jobs). Also take into consideration that this plan is good if you develop young talent and then add 25/26 year old superstars, not when you have 20 year old core and 35 year old stars who'se window is closing. Those windows do not match each other which results in a failure. Our FO failed at everything except the draft, which thankfully is not part of their duties and is mostly the Jessy Buss's team.
Kobe averaged 25-5-5, 28-5-5, and 27-6-6 in the seasons leading up to age 34. Then he averaged 14-6-4, 22-6-6, 18-4-3. He had a catastrophic injury, but no one would pretend he was within the top 100 in the last three years of his career. 34 to 35 isn't a magical transformation, but James was injured, showed one of his worst seasons in a variety of measures: ORtrg-DRtg was +6, which was his worst since his rookie season. Other worsts since rookie season: PER, OWS, WS, WS/48, VORP. Career worsts: fewest games, fewest minutes. In both total and rate stats, this was basically the worst season for LeBron since his rookie year. LeBron MIGHT be top 15 next year, but if you think it's painfully obvious, I think you're mistaking quite a few things. He was 14th in PIPM, 15th in RPM Wins - and that was THIS season. Why would he be obviously as good or better being a year older, with more mileage?
Gotta run to class, so no proofreading: The Lakers haven't been 10/10 maybe, but they've been good. Lakers drafted two of the top 7 players in terms of VORP in the 2015 draft. One of them hit right away (Nance) and one is developing into one of the best (Russ). I think Russ will end up the second or third best player in that draft class. Zubac is 14th in VORP, and he's a young big, which means he'll likely continue to become even better. Ingram doesn't far well in VORP, and he's down at 48th. I get not being blown away by him, but I think he's struggled with injuries and changing role. Ball is 5th in VORP, despite missing all that time. Hart is 9th. Kuzma is 15th. I think Hart and Kuzma were, like Nance, "hit now" players with little more upside. Ball's different; he has way more upside. If you can't build a competitor while drafting or initially acquiring 2 of the top 15 talents every NBA season for a period of three seasons, what are you doing? You won't strike it gold elsewhere. I guess that following Brooklyn for a year and a half, seeing a young team that scrapped and came together and is on the verge of big things has spoiled my mindset. I'd rather root for that team than one that is flaming trash unless everyone is healthy for 82 games. Remember: Brooklyn lost its "best" player for a chunk of the season, too. Other young guys rose to the occasion.
What is this notion that once 2 max star is on board automatically equal contention? Like i said earlier, just cause Mia did it doesn't mean every other team with cap space plans will work nor the instant overnight contention, hell even current gsw team was a 5-6yr time frame from the start of their young stars career before they made any real noise. We can trade off all the youth for a star but still not contending just like that
This. Do you think we couldn't move a guy like Randle if he were making 11 million a season (what he was rumored to have wanted)? Randle at 11 million is EASILY moveable. We moved Clarkson at 12 million along with Nance for expiring deals. Randle is twice the player either of those guys are. The point is simple. We're not saying to not keep flexibility. We're saying that you can keep a nice clean cap without having 50 million in cap space at the end of every season. If the players on your cap are being paid fairly or (even better) underpaid, that is still a "clean" cap.
And Miami did it with 3 max stars, not just two. And two of those three were prime D-Wade and prime Lebron. If we add Kawhi this offseason, we'll be a contender. But I think that's the only way. Getting AD will cost us too much depth and Lebron/AD/Kuzma is probably a 3-4 seed, but isn't on the same level as the Rockets, Bucks, and Durantless Warriors.
I mean, we gave him an extension pre Bron, if we can just pick the best scenario we would do or can then we’d have a championship team. AD/Kawhi/Bron is essentially three top 15 players in my opinion.
The difference is we had control over the scenarios that involved the talent we drafted. We have to cross our fingers for the Lebron/AD/Kawhi pipe dream.
I agree. But the FO has signaled its time to get ride of the 20 year olds and bring in the stars, which I also agree with. The problem is when most fans overvalue the 20 year olds and somehow think they are our ticket to winning (over LeBron James), when mostly likely they will not amount to much.
These advanced stats don't tell you anything. LeBron put up 27/8/8 in arguably the best season any 16th year player has EVER had. He was the only bright spot on our s***ty team. He will definitely be better than a top 15 player next year. And is still very much capable of leading a team as a primary option to a championship. Kobe put up 27/6/6 in his 17th year with a host of injuries behind him. Why don't you think James, who has a full offseason to recover for the first time in 14 years, can't do the same?
While I agree and I wasn’t a fan of the Russell trade at the time or now, you can’t pick a great scenario from one option in fantasy and say another is a “pipe dream”. Regardless, we are where we are with one of the best players in the game, room for another max FA and some good young pieces with a lottery pick.
We did not draft 10/10, and I'm including the fact that we didn't get any #1 picks. The fact is we didn't draft A SINGLE superstar in the draft. Maybe we never had the shot. I don't know. But a team of Russell, Randle, Zubac, Nance, Clarkson, Kuzma, Ball, will never win anything. We were NOT fortunate enough to draft Curry, Klay, and Green, or Durant, Harden, and Westbrook. You NEED a superstar to win an NBA championship. Honestly, these days you probably need 2. Put away the VORP man. KAT has a better VORP than Curry, James, Davis, George, and Leonard. Gobert has a better VORP than Kevin Durant. Vucevic has a better VORP than Irving. It's a stupid stat. I doubt most even know what it takes into account. It's a garbage stat that relies on BPM, another garbage number, and even the creators of it would tell you that you can't use it in a vacuum to rank players like how you are doing. If you want to go cheer for the Nets, do it. But I'm telling you, even if we kept ALL our young core, we would never amount too much. The ONLY way we could win is if we added better players to that roster, which is exactly what we're trying to do now. Except we also have the bonus of having LeBron James.
What control do we have? All those scenarios people outlined STILL involved the pipe dream of getting Leonard and Davis!
I don't understand this. If the whole point was to sign Randle just so we can move him, why not just keep the cap space anyways? We would have to get rid of Randle to sign the max FAs in the offseason. We could have dragged it on and kept him another year, only to move him at the deadline, but what's the point. Everyone's *ideal* plan involves the exact same thing. Trading the young guys for proven talent (Davis) or cap space to sign proven talent. I fail to see how any of this is radically different from what our FO is doing.
Every championship team has this. It's a prerequisite. If you think we can win a championship with a team of Russell, Randle, Zubac, Nance, Clarkson, Ingram, Ball, Nwaba, and whatever s***ty players we've drafted, you're severely mistaken. The recipe has ALWAYS been - acquire multiple stars. Then fill the roster with veteran role players on cheap deals. I get this fanbase is emotionally attached to the players we drafted, but sometimes it's too much.
VORP isn’t losing sleep over your takes. James couldn’t carry this team. AD can’t carry his team. Put away these silly arguments. Outlier A did outlier stuff. Why can’t B? B can, but B probably won’t. They’re outliers, after all.
Do you seriously think James isn't good enough to be a primary option on a championship team? I fail to see the point you're making. As Laker fans, we cannot let our previous hate of him cloud our judgement. Dude is still very much an elite player.
