1st time in long time ive seen rqndle get flustered n aggrevated, it really effected his effort defensively
Great post Vash, and while we fall into opposing camps in terms of whether Randle or Nance should have been starting, I think here you make the very best analysis of the decision early this season if it fell under Luke's making instead of the FO. And though it frustrated me to no end because it was ugly basketball with Nance out there in the starters and I felt it would be better with Randle, I do agree with you completely that it all turned out well in the end because Nance did get exposure as a hustle guy and valuable piece of a great trade for us. Also to bolster your point, we got to see Randle play quite a bit as a small ball center in the Draymond Green role, and surprise, surprise, he actually excelled at it! I did not see him playing major minutes at the 5 but it showed us that if we do land a couple FA's like PG and Lebron we should be trying our hardest to keep Randle to play alongside them at center with spot minutes at 4. His ability to switch on guards was always there and visible, but nowhere near the level that it is now after playing 5 for much of the early season. Ultimately I think it cost us maybe a handful of games, but in the end it's all for the best because we know how valuable Randle potentially is now going forward, we've opened up space for two FA's by moving Clarkson and Nance, and most likely we weren't making the playoffs this season anyway even with Randle starting. My feeling though remains that Randle deserved more minutes and the starting gig and I feel I'm vindicated by his solid and much of the time stellar play this year especially since regaining that starting role.
For the record I don't think you've ever come across as classless or condescending, Vash!! You are one of the very best posters I've had the pleasure to read over all these years at CL and here at LB. You always have extremely well reasoned posts and clearly stated positions, whether folks agree or disagree and that's been the goal at the sites. You were there before me at CL when I was just a newbie and I've enjoyed your takes and style since the very beginning of my time there. Always a pleasure to talk impassioned Lakers talk with you!
I'm not sure both sides can't be right. Benching Randle early on got him fired up and at some point in December, according to Randle himself, he went to Luke and decided it was time to start over and focus on the things Luke wanted to do. Randle's advanced defensive stats aren't great, but we've all seen him be far more dedicated to that side of the ball than he ever has before. It's night and day different. A year ago, Julius would frequently watch as guys got to the rim because he'd be a step late. These days Julius flies around defensively. Luke recently told Julius that he was the best one-on-one defender in the league and at times I think there's some truth to that, but more importantly Juilus has been a far better deterrent at the rim than he ever has been before (with a ton of room to grow still in that department). Julius, when he came into the league, talked glowingly about Coach Kal being able to get the most of him by challenging him and pushing him. Kobe is Juilus's hero and mentor, a guy who consistently found ways to challenge himself. Recently when talking about how things have changed, Julius compared Luke to Kal and I think that's actually the highest form of compliment that Julius can give a coach. He needs this sort of thing to push himself further. Could Julius have found this newfound energy himself? Maybe, but even he admits that he'll get complacent when he's not pushed. He's just got that kind of personality and that's okay. All that said, sure this probably cost us a couple games at some point. I don't believe that starting Nance was a big mistake because Nance does all the little things you want from a role player, but sure the ceiling is probably lower and Nance does almost nothing offensively besides stretching the floor vertically and running well. Still, I think what Vash is saying is that maybe that's okay. Maybe sacrificing a few of those early games was more important to Julius on the developmental front than it was for us to be 5 games out of the playoffs instead of 7 games. I'll tell you right now, early in the season I was absolutely in favor of dumping him if it meant a max slot and I think the Lakers agreed, but because of how this season has played out, that would be base insanity.
Thx for the love @Kou and @lakerjones However Jonesy, to be absolutely sincere, I was being extra sassy towards @Alcindor and like his Fisher avi, I deserved to get Scola'd. Hope he understands that I wasn't talking down on him, just the topic. I don't mind player fans one bit cause they always seem to reveal a perception that the majority might have missed. The only time I have a problem with it is when you got to bring others down to defend your guy or hype him up. For example, I love me some Kobe, but like any man, dude was flawed. Kobe would bail us out on many nights and alot of his fans were justifiably upset when the shot clock would wind down and his teammates would hand him the ball with 2 seconds left. However when Kobe did get some legit horses around him and his fans still kept insinuating that Kobe was carrying the squad to deflect any blame from Kobe, then that's where I had a problem. The man can have a bad game from time to time. Jordan failed over and over again and through it he found success! So bringing it back to Jules and Luke...I don't really like hearing that Luke cost us a playoff bid due to his mishandling of Randle, cause like @therealdeal said its okay to fail this season as long as it leads to heightened success down the road. Luke could have easily Thibodeau'd the situation and handed all our young guys extended minutes with zero accountability. Could it have led to a playoff berth...maybe. But once we get there, wouldn't we be fundamentally flawed and get knocked out of the playoffs...absolutely! You're trying to create a culture and develop these young men the right way. Jules was terrible as a defensive player before this year and now he's in the discussion as our enforcer, so that's development. Through his failure, he's found success. I would sacrifice an 8th seed playoff berth in order for our young guys to develop the right way 10xs out of 10. I can honestly admit that I was in the camp of dumping Jules along with Deng so that we can retain draft picks and our other youth like BI and Zo...butt I was clearly wrong in that assessment, cause I'm an a**. I've come around and want to be a Fandle now. Now do I still think he deserves the max? If he makes an all-NBA team or earns Most Improved Player and has more of a consistent right hand and controls his bullish ways pertaining to foul trouble and develops a reliable jumper...then sure, he deserves the max. Do I think he's untouchable....honestly, I would trade him for AD or any equivalent frontline star that has a decorated resume. But that doesn't mean that I hate the dude and that doesn't mean I like to continuously harp on his flaws in these discussions. Bullyius had proven this doubter wrong and I'm more than happy to cheer him on through his development. It would be an absolute mistake by us, as well as LaBron and George, to not accommodate a scenario where we can retain Jules to link up with those 2 this summer. Hope it gets done.
Sweet to have you on team Fandle now Vash! I too hope he doesn't need max to stay here and hope we can retain him along with some great FA's. I agree with you too, we weren't making the playoffs with Randle starting or not this year. Sorry folks, it might have cost us even a handful of games at the very most, but that's not enough to make the difference in my opinion. We had too many injuries this year and too young a team to realistically get there. I was hoping for 30-35 wins and I think we are going to exceed that which is awesome. Go Randle! I hope to heck he's here next year!
I agree with Lakerjones. I just thought you were a bit irritable, maybe it's this particular subject which led to some mildly condescending remarks and in turn my "classy'" remark. It just gets away from real productive discussion when that stuff gets injected imo. I do agree with much said about Nance for instance. I just believe the deal with Cleveland still goes down with Nance coming off the bench all season. His all around hustle and D combined with a friendly contract for 3 more seasons makes him a great asset that GMs would be well aware of by now, starter or no. Regarding Jules, we'll never know for sure what could have been this season but I think Luke took some of Randle's mojo out from under him by having him come off the bench with a contract looming and didn't even give him the chance to prove he could get his D together as he was coming off the bench from the start this season. It took an injury in which after Jules stepped in Luke couldn't take the starting position back from him. The way the team now plays and is able to beat just about anyone on a given night (especially if we have BI & Hart) I don't think a 7 game game win increase at this point with Jules starting all season is a wild fantasy. Again it's all hind site and arm chair coaching. I may never know Luke's full reasoning. I don't completely buy just the "D" thing, it seems like more of a façade for something(s) else. But based on what I can see it's at best subjective, not conclusive either way.
^^^You're just being nice. Lets call it what it is...I was a d***. I could have discussed it in a far better way, but the topic got the best of me. Anyways, thanks for being understanding about it and I certainly don't deserve the words Jonesy had for me, but I'm happy team Fandle is tolerable for all the ish I said about Jules just to prove my point. I'll just have to agree to disagree with the hypothetical of Luke f***ing up our chances for the playoffs because he didn't play Randle enough. I think both those dudes have done a great job, all things considered. One thing in all this back and forth is for sure. Jules is open to playing with LaBron and he shares the same agent with George, so I'm sure there's some back-channeling that has occurred between those 2. Now all that is left is for George and LaBron to accept that this Lakers team is better with Jules on it and they will have to address their potential maxes accordingly.
These are the types of plays Luke pulls Randle aside for missing assignments. One on one, around a pick and roll, he's a monster. But he has to learn to use his peripherals if he's going to play help side like that and learn the correct rotations, or read when situations need doubling, and when you know your guy can go one on one straight up.
Zo really impresses me with his leadership. Loved how he got in between Jules and IT and he is demonstrative in that clip towards Jules on defense. Love it kid...keep at it! Meanwhile, Bullyius claims yet another victim...
LOL! can't wait til we ride with Julius to the playoffs. Imagine how banged up the opposing team would be after 5-6 games
Live look at Jules in the playoffs playing a roadie. Don't blink, otherwise you'll miss the exact moment his purple Nike jersey rips off.
...defenders getting knocked off their feet, raising their hands, looking at the refs. The one with Jeff Green will never get old.
it's amazing how low his release point is on shots around the bucket. but i guess when the defender's in the 4th row, you can get away with that.
