LJ, listen I get that Randle at starter didn't get a fair shake cause Zo wasn't in the lineup and BI and Kuz are still slightly hobbled. But dude did fade on defensive switches late in the game possibly due to the extended minutes/foul trouble and the starters again got off to a slow start which had us trailing from the jump. If we have to rely on a rookie PG that much for the offense to look good and heck even the defense to look good, then we got a problem folks. And that is why even if we win some of these games, that shouldn't give anybody any immature pretenses as to how we should attack the summer. You go for 2 stars and then look into matching Randle as plan B as long as the money is right. We all have players that we gravitate towards, but we can all agree we want the Lakers to get #17 more than any player receiving personal accolades. I want the Lakers to have leverage in any Randle extension talks. If that means limiting his minutes, increasing his trade value, etc then so be it. Folks are in panic mode cause they don't want to surrender our pick to Philly/Boston. I totally understand that. But if we can avoid that scenario, yet still keep collecting Ls then I'm comforted to know that we'll still be able to recruit free agents as long as those Ls aren't of the "getting blasted" variety. If we remain competitive and collect moral victories, I'll take it. But the dialogue should be that the Lakers are on the cusp and we're just certain stars away from being legit contenders. Instead all the rage is talk about how we're disrespecting Randle. Really? Even with the way we treated Randle, we make free throws and we probably are 3 to 4 games out of the 8th spot instead of 7. That's on Randle as much as it is any other player (ie BI). Randle also has the highest turnover rate on the team (taking into account the limited minutes he plays). He also leads the team in personal fouls called...so some of him not staying on the floor is on him. I just don't want to hear excuses for the guy and have that dominate the conversation. Instead I want the narrative to be how young we are and how much potential this team has and all we need is for a star or 2 to lead us to the promise land. But instead the news is how players need to air out their grievances because the free agent noise is getting to them and how it affects their play. GTFOH with that noise. None of these players warrant that type of respect yet. I ride with the FO wanting stars here next season cause its good for the Lakers. I couldn't care less in how that affects Randle or any other player we have on the roster. Man up or get shipped out!
I’d say we’re “disrespecting” Randle with the games in minutes below 20. I’d say that because he has been a better player than Brook Lopez this season any way you look at it, and so Lopez coming back shouldn’t mean Randle gets fewer minutes, whether that’s because Lopez takes them or because his presence drives up Nance’s or whatever.
We're actually pretty close to the same page Vash. I'm all in for getting two star FA's and keeping Randle at a decent price is Plan B for sure. I'm not a fan of the "disrespecting Randle" narrative either. It's a contract year and he should be playing his hardest to convince us he's worth investing in. So far I see that he is trying and he just might be worth it. I guess our only major difference is I think Randle should be starting not because failing to do so is "disrespect" but because I think the more minutes he plays he gives us a better chance to win. Now, hey, if he's sucking out there, pull him. Just like anyone else. What I see though is that he's our best fitting Big for what we are trying to do. His defensive switching is better than Lopez, Nance, Bogut and all other Bigs. Those guys just aren't as quick or as effective at guarding smalls as Randle is.
Vash, I love you man but you've never been more wrong in the 15 years that I've seen you post. Randle has been mistreated and it has affected the overall psyche of our team. I think the other players were also wondering why he was only playing 10 minutes or 8 minutes or 12 minutes in some games this year while we've had so many bigs out. It made no sense and it was blatant disrespect to one of our best players who did everything we asked him to do over the summer. Randle better be starting rest of the year. Brook has not earned the starting spot and I believe we're much worse with him in the lineup than we are with Randle. Randle has also shown to be a beast on defense this year. We cannot overlook that fact. I'm also not convinced we're going to get 2 superstars or even ONE this summer. Vash answer this...why the HELL would PG13 or LeBron come to us when we're once again last place in the west if the season ended today and 2nd worst team in the league record wise? We're once again putting all our eggs in one basket and there's a good chance we'll get burned again this summer.
LJ, I want Ws too, but there's a business element here we can't ignore. If we can leverage Randle in contract extensions while bringing on 2 star players, maybe that's been our endgame from the jump. But that would mean he gets noticeably less than the max that is allowed to him. How would we get there and justify it as well? Limit his minutes: Pros- his efficiency and therefore trade value increase; we spare him from injury; he can play balls to the wall without any ramification (ie loss of energy, fouling out); gives him exposure to the role we want him to embrace moving forward; we control his salary price point in extension negotiations Cons- we lose winnable games; we have Randle check out on us (ie chooses to go elsewhere in free agency, which we can still match and have him reluctantly remain here btw) Extend his minutes: Pros- possibly leads to more wins; develops his confidence to the point where he believes he's a star player Cons - hurts Lakers in negotiation talks towards an extension; could lead to more wear and tear and possible injury (worst case scenario: shows up AFTER we extend him); he possibly looks terrible in extended minutes (ie reduces his trade value and his confidence in himself) Again, there's definitely a business angle to this. And again, I would much rather the Lakers have all the leverage in any talks that involve either a Randle trade or extension.
I’m not asking for the Lakers to extend or limit his minutes, I’d simply like to see him at his career average. These 11, 15, 18 min game are silly. He’s averaging about 22 mpg, and the last 2 years he averaged 28/29, his career is 27. I don’t see a reason for the drop from 28/29 mins to 22 when he got in fantastic shape this offseason. I don’t think we need to play him more than we have before, because he’s been efficient in his role, I just don’t see why he’s playing so much less than the previous 2 seasons when he’s a better player now. He still fouls too much and makes dumb mistakes, yes, but he’s a better shooter now and shooting a better percentage than he ever has. I don’t think all of that is due to lesser minutes, I think he just worked and got better. Edit: If anyone could be dialed back a little it’s probably Kuzma. Love the guy, but 32 mins might be a bit too much for a rookie as we are seeing him look a little worn out lately. As Vas has pointed out, Nance really is not the problem as he’s only averaging 22 mpg as well.
Fair enough points Vash. Personally, I'd rather give him more minutes and increase our chances of winning while simultaneously seeing what Randle can give us possibly in the future in order to better analyze his value here. But that's me. Plus I like watching him play! I hate that starting unit with Slowpez and Nance so much that it makes me insane. I need something better than that putrid stuck in the mud offense. That's why I at least preferred Kuz out there. Not to beat a dead horse but I really want to see Randle out there starting at 4 for some games with Lonzo and Lopez. I agree with Weezy. I think he should be playing somewhere between 25 and 30 mpg. He doesn't need to play more than that since we are pretty loaded at 4/5 with Kuz, Nance, Lopez and Bogut also needing time. But somewhere in that area would be a nice balance given how effective he has been.
Let me first preface that I love all you guys too (except for that lazy a** sirron...got all the time in the world to give every man, woman and child a gif/meme, but can't take out 30 mins to watch Kuz give out every man, woman and child "so..."s and "you know"s). Fab4, I may be wrong, but last I checked LaBron joined a 33-49 Cavs team just to get his a** back home. After we played Houston, CP3 stated that he couldn't believe this Lakers team had only won 11 games this season. That's the narrative I want the media and the board to run with. And that's the narrative that PG will use to justify coming back home. We had the 3rd hardest schedule heading into this season and now that the Dec. gauntlet is over with, we still have the 7th hardest remaining schedule. I'm sure certain players that are plugged in understand that and won't have a problem joining a Lakers team that has endeared all this losing. Again, its the way we lose these games that won't go unnoticed on the likes of these marquee free agents. Weez and LJ, again I understand the danger in surrendering our 1st round pick to either Philly or the C Bags, but I still think free agents won't get deterred in joining a Lakers team that has endeared tough losses as long as we show promise that we're just a couple stars away from being legit. I think the minutes restriction on Randle has alot to do with the business end.
To be fair...we haven't really shown what we are capable of with all the injuries taking away three fifths of our starting line up and creating havoc with our rotations. We still probably would not have won as much but we would have had a better chance and showcased our potential. Another season of fits and starts just like the last one. What I take in all this is that potential free agents are noticing what we have. In their heads could be thinking they could be that guy to lead us. Whether they sign with us remains to be seen however with too many scenarios to unfold first this season.
You need him to say, "I want to play for the Lakers" to media questions? Really? He says in the f***ing video, "I would love to go back home and play for my city" at 44 seconds.
this SOS stuff is highly questionable to me. i'm too lazy to look it up, but some things are generally true: if you suck (or sucked last year, in this case), your schedule is "harder" because your sucky a** team loses to everyone, making them "better". second, look at the variability in the chart: from 49% to 51% at the extremes. in other words, almost nada in terms of impacting w/l. now, if you want to look at how tough the schedule has been this year to this point, the lakers have a point to make for optimism (albeit a small one). they've played a lot of the "guaranteed loss" teams multiple times. of course, they've also lost to a lot of "guaranteed wins"... anyway, this is the randle thread, right? i suggest he work to not get down 15 before the 9 minute mark tonight if he wants to make luke look stupid.
He was a turnstile defensively last night. He gave up mid-range shot after mid-range shot. He allowed guys to drive through him. He allowed the lob over the back of him. OKC targeted him and they made him look really bad. The whole team was bad, but his effort on the defensive end was really awful. It reminded me of last season's Lakers, not this season's Lakers.
I was fine with him off the bench feasting on backups. Just wanted to see the minutes go up a tick and him finishing games. I’m also still fine with trading him if we can get a star right now.
Making Randle play 5 is playing forcing a square peg in a round hole. Stop trying to make him a Draymond. They may have similar builds, but Draymond's IQ and attention to detail on defense is unparalleled which allows him to play the small ball 5, and he can shoot the 3. Right now, the problem is having Kuz/Nance/Randle at the PF position, and Kuz/Nance are Luke's pets because of their IQ on the court. Randle's mistakes gets magnified because he's playing out of position. With Lopez looking too slow and camping outside all game and Bogut only capable of playing 5 minutes a game, we really need to find a true 5 that is able to fill a defensive role that we are desperately lacking.
