Gabe Vincent Discussion: Cardio To The ATL

it's an ankle and an injury you could see, so i actually trust it? the ominous ones are when the knee just swells up and nobody knows why, and they're like...we'll check again in a couple weeks and then the guy's dead.

 

Our real man of glass.

 

Yeah sure. That was a nasty ankle roll from the usual landing on someone's foot, that could have happened to every player in the league. Why do people take shots at players for typical injuries that happen especially in high speed and contact sports?

 

Because that's just some Lakers fan's entertainment and joy. In the same fashion, that a lot of fans, are always screaming about " Defense!!!! ", but if a player isn't scoring, he's a borderline bum.

 

yeah, i haven't understood how vando became a lightning rod here for some. gabe's similar to me in that his value is "intangibles" and then the cardio gabe stuff is just kind of...affirming this? it's not like he set the world on fire with his stats before we signed him. this is who he is. like many guys, he could put up more respectable numbers in a bigger role, but nobody wants that.

i'm still not sure i don't prefer him to schroder, who really looks the part, but everyone wants rid of him almost immediately after picking him up.

 

Come on there are intangibles and there is guy who is just bad out there. If he put up the same numbers as he did in Miami no one would be complaining but not only is he putting up worse per game numbers he's not as efficient at getting fewer points and then his rebounding and assist percentages are all worse.

The lack of rebounding and ability to get to the FT line is brutal as his individual defense efforts get negated when the opposing teams get ore possessions and he can't initiate offense anymore. He's become an ultra small 3 and D guys whose too small to switch and easy to guard on offense.

Its perfectly ok and perfectly appropriate to feel a player is bad even when that said player does make a good faith effort on defense.

 

I feel like Gabe is our best POA defender at the moment. I'd be curious to see what the Laker's internal advanced stats say on his contributions. All his teammates seem to think he is valuable.

 

and coaches. i just find it hard to believe he truly brings nothing to the table or worse given all this. people used to say the same about fisher, of whom gabe reminds me.

ultimately, he's definitely among the weakest of our rotation players, and i throw his expiring contract in most of my hypothetical trades. but i think people ask too much of our 8th and 9th guys in terms of minute allocation. it's hard to get any rhythm when you barely touch the ball or get like 4 FGAs a night. finding role players who can excel in that situation isn't as easy as it looks, imo.

 

Yeah, Gabe is highly regarded by his peers. You got it perfectly, it's the intangibles. And because they're intangibles, you're not expected to see them. He plays hard and must very good in strategic/tactical things, communicating, switching, fundamentals and all these things that work collectively.

But yeah his size is an issue. And for wtv reason he needs more usage to be effective on offense, although he doesn't excel as a shot creator or floor general. He's a weird one.

With Smart I'm much more at ease with Gabe though. We don't need as much from him. Our problem is that he's like the 5th highest paid guy, close to the MLE and we can certainly use that money in a better asset/fit.
I hope we don't re-sign him this summer, unless it's like for 6 million

 

I think for most of the fanbase Gabe just felt like deja vu after Nunn came here and did nothing. He hasn't been able to play most of his time here and when he's out there its just a mixed bag to me for a variety of reasons. Some his fault while others aren't.

Great that the staff and players like him, but I just don't see anything we will really miss once we are finally able to trade him or he just walks.

 

Deadman of the year candidates GVincent and MKleber, same guys as last year

 

I don't think we did him any favors by starting him.

The only reason(s) I can think of are: he had a fantastic preseason shooting the ball, he's the best option (2 way), and they wanted to build continuity by having a consistent starting 5 since Marcus would be in & out of the lineup with injuries.

However, even after considering all that (looking at the totality), he's been underwhelming (I'm being nice), and he needs to be shipped for another useful piece we can use moving forward. I'm kind of tired of losing pieces for nothing.

 

Agreed. And yes. I figured we were trying to work Smart into the lineup slowly so we started Gabe, but he's just not that guy. And that's not even meant as some kind of insult.

 

I think you're right, and that it's a mistake by JJ. Significant enough to cost wins at the margins. He could have played Smart and Gabe the exact same number of minutes as he did, but starting Smart and having Gabe come off the bench would have worked better and given us a better chance to win G1 and for the guys to get more rest in G2. And better and more productive for Gabe himself as well.

 

Exactly.

 

I think Smart is not going to start for the Lakers, EVER. I mean maybe a game or two, here and there, but I don't think he will ever fill that slot on an even a midterm temporary basis. He has injury limitations and needs to be managed. He is more suited to play less minutes and be our defensive stopper in a 3 guard rotation of Luka, AR and Smart. I pray he can stay healthy enough to do that. We almost need a fourth guy who can switch out with Smart if Smart is needing more rest, recovery time.

 

I don't understand how managing minutes means he can't start. He can start and close halves for 5-6 min each, for 20-24 min/game. That's how much he plays now, or more.

 

Once Lebron is here, Ayton, Lebron and Rui are the front court starters. I don't see Smart taking over the starting spot from Rui. I could see us trading for some other 3 & D wing player if we can find one. Then Rui will come off the bench or be in the trade package. Luka and AR will be starting in our backcourt. Can't see them moving AR to the bench, especially in light of how well he has started the season. You can make an argument for Smart taking Rui's spot but I doubt this FO and JJ will do that with Rui. I see Smart is a backup in the guard to small forward spots, depending on the opposition. Smart is awesome and he makes us a lot better but I just don't see them moving anyone out of our starting rotation and with Smart's recent injuries, it just makes sense to use him less then we could or should.

 

That makes sense Wino. Probably also the suggestion was for now in lieu of Gabe ..... starting and finishing halves with Smart at his optimum number of managed minutes while LeTigerWoods is out.



You .... dummy, with your self inflicted sciatica after all these seasons not a sniff with it.

 

This all makes sense, and I agree, I think that's probably what JJ is going to do, for quite a while. Start Austin, Luka, LeBron, and Rui. It won't be (or shouldn't be) for minutes management reasons though, it will be to keep Rui happy and perhaps more productive (even though he should be more productive off the bench).

Austin and Luka are our backcourt offensively, but they are not our backcourt defensively. When healthy, Smart or Vincent will be out there with them, and Luka will be guarding a forward.

This is a better lineup construction, and I hope JJ realizes this and uses it to close (Smart, Austin, Luka, LeBron, and either Ayton or Rui depending on matchup), and also eventually to start, or at least sub in Smart for Rui quickly, like after 3-4 min or so of each half. Rui can even play 9 min of each 1Q/3Q and Smart 6 min, but it's about optimizing the lineup construction in order to win games.