Brandon Ingram Discussion: He Is Who We Thought He Could Be

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by Lakers2015, Jun 23, 2016.

Page 302 of 359
  1. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    36,404
    Likes Received:
    60,578
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    How does he get a rep and a number of various stats that show him to be a promising decent to good defender already without applying himself? Guess you're saying focus almost exclusively on defense for now. I think him working on both sides of his game is the better way to go.
     
    LTLakerFan, Jan 10, 2019
    #6021
    Big Mamma Jamma likes this.
  2. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    8,286
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Certified Tax Advisor
    Location:
    Germany
    Offline
    Tatum is much smoother, his shot looks much better and he is more comfortable shooting the 3, he produces those numbers while playing in the deepest team in the league and he is a year younger and only a sophomore. Tatum has also already shined in the playoffs.

    I would take Tatum over Ingram right now objectively.

    And BTW...no Ingram doesn't provide MUCH better defense...Tatum isn't bad on D at all, has higher steals and blocking numbers than Ingram too.
     
    KB24, Jan 11, 2019
    #6022
    Kenzo, sirronstuff and ElginTheGreat like this.
  3. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    5,076
    Likes Received:
    9,823
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    Yeah Tatum is smooth and will be a much better scorer .

    To be fair to BI , Tatum plays in a weaker conference , has had a better team and ...... a MUCH better coach and organisation who have not wrongly use him and " over accelerate his development" ( remember the stupid " if BI doesn't average 20 this season" Magic comment for a guy who averaged just 9 the season before ?)
     
    wcsoldier81, Jan 11, 2019
    #6023
    ElginTheGreat, sirronstuff and abeer3 like this.
  4. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,019
    Likes Received:
    75,600
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    i believe i was scorned for saying that it was a) stupid and b) potentially damaging.

    it was both.

    he wasn't going to achieve it, and if he did, it would have been due to forcing square pegs into round holes. at the time, i favored a kawhi-like development trajectory, wherein we didn't ask him to start creating offense until he'd established himself as a solid finisher of plays (and as a defender). but we insisted on trying to make him a 20ppg point forward despite no evidence suggesting either was likely any time soon.
     
    abeer3, Jan 11, 2019
    #6024
    ElginTheGreat, TIME, sirronstuff and 1 other person like this.
  5. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I'm pretty confident Ingram and Kuzma would have averaged 20 ppg (or very close) this year if Lebron wasn't here.
     
    tada, Jan 11, 2019
    #6025
    CarolinaLakerFan, TIME and sirronstuff like this.
  6. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    5,076
    Likes Received:
    9,823
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    Yeah on 18-19 Westbrook TS% like ( 3rd worst all time for players with a USG rate > 30% , only behind Wizards MJ and Farewell Kobe !!!!) for BI.

    Thanks but no thanks
     
    wcsoldier81, Jan 11, 2019
    #6026
    sirronstuff and abeer3 like this.
  7. KB24

    KB24 Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    3,159
    Likes Received:
    8,286
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Certified Tax Advisor
    Location:
    Germany
    Offline
    Both are fair/good arguments which I hadn't thought about. The pressure put by Magic publicly was puzzling and did more harm than good and Ingram's usage by Walton can also be questioned at times.

    With that said, Ingram doesn't even have "flashes" of a superstar. Tatum does and did show it in the playoffs.

    Ingram is an extremely low-key and very quiet guy who doesn't really possess or show great intensity/emotions. He is definitely not a born scorer or shooter. He is a solid passer for his position but not good enough as a full-time point forward like Simmons, Giannis, LeBron etc. He is solid at many things but not great at anything and unfortunarely terrible at shooting, the most sought after skill these days.

    Is he immensely talented? yes, because his versatility is extremely intriguing of having someone who does it all and does it all well.

    Does his personality scream NBA star? Not really yet. How many NBA stars do you know as quiet and introverted as Ingram? Kawhi comes to mind but he is very intense on the court (visible to the eye), something Ingram sorely lacks.

    Its still early though as BI is 21. Kawhi at 21 wasn't anything special either. But the writing on the wall is more in line with a good role player rather than a star just based on his personality. There is a reason stars are valuable...its because they are rare and have superior mental and/or physical attributes. Length alone isn't cutting it.
     
    KB24, Jan 11, 2019
    #6027
    sirronstuff and ElginTheGreat like this.
  8. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    5,076
    Likes Received:
    9,823
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    It's great you are mentioning Kawhi here.

    We're basically asking year 3 BI to play like year 7 Kawhi

    Source : Cranjis McBasketball twitter

     
    wcsoldier81, Jan 11, 2019
    #6028
    ElginTheGreat, TIME, sirronstuff and 1 other person like this.
  9. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Not sure what you mean. Ingram was shooting a TS% of over 60%, averaging like 18 pts the last 2 months to end the 18-19 season. Without having to adjust to Lebron, I'd imagine he would have averaged 20 on good efficiency.
     
    tada, Jan 11, 2019
    #6029
    sirronstuff likes this.
  10. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,019
    Likes Received:
    75,600
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    exactly what i'm talking about. skinny kawhi was always his ceiling, imo (check my old posts), but he'd have to be developed similarly. people are blaming luke, but when the big boss is making statements like magic did, what's luke supposed to do? they wanted to try to hasten ingram's development instead of let it play out. if anything, lebron's presence should be helping, but some damage was already done in that ingram became a ball-dominant player before he was ready and has to unlearn all of that now.
     
    abeer3, Jan 11, 2019
    #6030
    Savory Griddles, sirronstuff, ElginTheGreat and 2 others like this.
  11. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,799
    Likes Received:
    22,702
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    Magic has always been prone to player over estimation. I remember years ago him saying that this was JR Reid's league now with the full expectation that Reid was going to be the next superstar.
     
    TIME, Jan 11, 2019
    #6031
    ElginTheGreat, tada, sirronstuff and 1 other person like this.
  12. vasashi17

    vasashi17 LB's Resident Capologist

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,591
    Likes Received:
    20,201
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I disagree with Lavar on many things, but the part about taking the kid gloves off, I'm with.

    Magic is only providing motivation to a player that wants to get there one day.

    With that type of mentality, you better aim for 20pts per...you better aim for more tbfh!

    And at the very least you best aim for making FREE throws. I've seen you practice them in the background while the other guys played that silly around the world 3pt game in practice..and then 2-6...wtf, bruh?!?

    Net -19 in roughly 35 mins played...took only 4 shots attempts after the 1st quarter... Had zero assists (yeah, I know guys weren't hittin shots tonight, but still then why only 4 shot attempts in quarters 2-4)...3TOs...

    No Bron and that means green light, Brandon. You had it going in the 1st quarter, so why'd you proceed with caution from that point on?

    My expectations are sky high for dude...so step your game up dog, cause you can't stay tiny in this game. The wolves are already out and ain't in no mood to toss you a bone.
     
    vasashi17, Jan 11, 2019
    #6032
    KB24, TIME, Kenzo and 5 others like this.
  13. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Trade him.
     
    LaVarBallsDad, Jan 12, 2019
    #6033
    shoe likes this.
  14. fabfourlakers

    fabfourlakers - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,572
    Likes Received:
    8,137
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    he sucks. get rid of him please.
     
    fabfourlakers, Jan 14, 2019
    #6034
  15. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    31,604
    Likes Received:
    76,895
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Your time is running out Ham
    Location:
    Laker Purgatory
    Online
    I think he looks uncomfortable to even watch in the role he's being asked to play. But I wouldn't say he sucks. He's definitely not playing to his strengths though.
     
    sirronstuff, Jan 14, 2019
    #6035
    abeer3, SamsonMiodek, tada and 1 other person like this.
  16. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Unfortunately time is not on our (and your) side Brandon.
     
    tada, Jan 15, 2019
    #6036
    alam1108 likes this.
  17. Exonyte

    Exonyte - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    617
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    Imagine if we had Randle instead of BI now
     
    Exonyte, Jan 15, 2019
    #6037
  18. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,084
    Likes Received:
    13,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    he hasnt looked comfortable(good) in any role this yr minus a handful of good gms like dall n sac (at home)
     
    Khmrp, Jan 15, 2019
    #6038
    sirronstuff likes this.
  19. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,152
    Likes Received:
    22,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Maybe...but I think it would be more of a result of somebody having to score points as opposed to doing so efficiently and effectively.

    I was really high on Ingram when the season started, and I still think he can be a very good player, but it's not going to be here. Lebron and him are too similar in their styles and their needs as players. Kuzma works. Ball works to an extent. Ingram is just a bad fit. Unfortunately, he's such a bad fit he is tanking his trade value to the point where we essentially have to hope he figures it out QUICKLY or he will get sent off for an inferior player just so we can at least salvage some value out of a 2nd pick in the draft.

    It's probably less impactful than one would think merely as a result of the position Randle plays. Kuz and Lebron can't slide to the 2 so we open up the 4 spot for Randle. Ingram can barely slide to the 2. And Randle vs McGee/Chandler isn't really that big of an upgrade if we want to go small.

    I don't know who you could trade Ingram for at this point. Like I said, we have to hope he figures it out. But in year 3, he hasn't shown he can.
     
    Savory Griddles, Jan 15, 2019
    #6039
  20. SilkWilkes52

    SilkWilkes52 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    256
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Offline
    Wow... I just don’t get it with the BI hate. I’m chalking it up to Russian bots trying to divide a fan base. Look at the stats post LeBron and see who is stepping up. Winning Basketball is a team game, not a highlight reel. Real Basketball heads will take a two way player who’s producing on both ends and just turned 21 .....Sheesh
     
    SilkWilkes52, Jan 15, 2019
    #6040
    tada and sirronstuff like this.
Page 302 of 359

Share This Page