Brandon Ingram Discussion: He Is Who We Thought He Could Be

Reminds me of another Laker.

 

It frustrates me that people aren't willing to win now and are willing to wait more years, maybe forever, instead of taking the opportunity when it presents itself... and aren't looking forward enough to realize if the kids aren't good enough to win a title, we're going to be attached to a group of mid-20s kids that are all getting paid too much to achieve too little and we end up having to start over in 5 years with no rings.

And I never said LBJ and George weren't enough, but why wouldn't we go for it all if we've got the chance to? What if LBJ and George say they need AD or Kawhi in order to commit? I'm open to all possibilities as clearly the Lakers are too. Hopefully we can find a way to dump Deng and keep all our kids. That'd be great.

 

I totally agree. I'm not going to be livid if we don't land anyone in FA besides keeping what we have. I think there's a chance we can compete in a few years. I just wouldn't be satisfied with it.

I'd love to just nab George. I think if we just added George we could be in that 5-8 range for sure, maybe even as high as 4th depending on other moves.

I'd be through the roof if we were able to land LeBron AND George. We'd jump from 10-11th seed all the way probably to 2-3rd seed in the West. We'd be immediate contenders and would still have more than enough youth to keep things fresh moving forward.

If we signed LeBron AND George and got one of AD or Kawhi while keeping one of Ingram or Ball, we'd end up with a dynastic team on par with any other team in the league right now. We'd be incredible and an immediate, serious threat to the Warriors now and in the future. A team with athleticism and defensive instincts lead by LeBron offensively in this system? At the pace we play? My goodness... But that's a fevered dream most likely.

 

Dude. I'm sitting right here. I can hear you.

 

I'm not throwing them away though. I'm turning a "maybe" into a "yes".

It's not like I'm out here advocating moving Ingram for cap space. I'm talking about moving Ingram for Kawhi Leonard: a champion, a Finals MVP, an All-Star, a 1st Team All-NBA player, a 2x Defensive Player of the Year, and a guy who came in 2nd and 3rd the last two years in MVP voting. If not Kawhi Leonard, then Anthony Davis a 5x All-Star, All-NBA 1st Teamer, 2x Block Leader, and gold medalist. These are two superstars who are smack dab in the middle of their prime and when they're on the floor, they're the best player 99% of the time.

Ingram looks to be on track to be a GREAT player, but if we're fair with ourselves, we're not a contender next year right? Let's say we don't get anybody in FA this summer and bring back the same team. We win, if we're lucky, 42-43 games. We miss the playoffs, but we're SO close. That's the 18/19 season. The next season, we bring back mostly the same crew, maybe add a veteran or give someone a longer contract. The next season we make a solid jump and we're now a 46-48 win team and really competing every night. We're a 3-5 seed and everyone calls us "dangerous but still too early". Ingram and Ball are still just 21-22 years old. Kuzma, Randle, and Hart are 25-26 years old. We lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs. That's the 19/20 season. Luol Deng is finally off the books, we go get another solid veteran. People are expecting a big jump from us now. We deliver and the next season around we win 50 games! This a time when the Warriors are really vulnerable after so many straight years of deep playoff runs. We get to the Conference Finals... And we lose. That's the 20/21 season. Ingram gets paid in the summer. Our cap space is tied up now. This is our team and we're going to succeed or fail on them. The next season after he gets paid, Ingram hurts his knee. He's out for the year. Kuzma hurts his shoulder. He's out for most of the year. Still, we're a really good team and we win 48 games. We're the 3rd seed in the West. We get back to the Conference Finals. We lose to the Wolves. That's the 21/22 season. Now we have to pay Kuzma, Hart, Ball, and Julius's contract has also expired.

See now that's a pretty optimistic view and there's nothing in there that I'd honestly qualify as a "failure" on the part of the Lakers, but that's four years in the future with no title and only a couple years of actual contention. After that season, do we go further? Who do we lose if we can't pay everybody? Keep in mind at that point most of our youngsters are still in their 20s so there's time still for them to go win titles, but we're now 4 years into the future with nothing. By 2022 it's entirely possible we never make the Finals, let alone win a title with these youngsters. That means 12 years since a Finals appearance which would be the longest in franchise history.

What I'm suggesting is giving us the best shot at getting to the Finals with players who are still in their primes. What I'm suggesting is keeping one of Lonzo or Ingram (20), adding Kawhi (26) and George (27), and finishing off with LeBron (33). LeBron can compete for a title immediately and once he's gone in 5 years we still have Lonzo (24), Kawhi (30), and George (31). We might still also be able to keep Kuzma or Hart as well. Why not go for it if we could? Look I'll be happy with JUST George, but I'm also not going to pass up a shot at taking it ALL if I have a shot at it.

 

Not realistic? If anything it's optimistic. I gave us significant jumps every season with no additions. I'm the author of the optimism thread, and this is as optimistic as we should be expecting. Asking for more would be asking a TON from 20 year old kids.

And you stopped reading at the very start? So you didn't catch the completely realistic expectations I built? I mean how can you be so frustrated about my point of view, but not willing to read it?

 

Who are we adding significantly this summer if it's not George or LeBron? The best FAs that fit our style are mostly already on our own team. Thomas, Randle, Lopez. Who else are we adding that will make a significant impact?

Who are we adding in 2019 that's a significant contributor? Curry? Kawhi? Klay? Butler? Kyrie? Why would any of them leave the spots they're in now when they're all competing at a high level?

The additions Rob and Magic make, barring a significant turnover, would be middling guys around the core like Ariza, Danny Green, Thadeus Young or something like that. Guys that will help contribute, but not add significant wins.

And I don't even know how to argue against "we should have won 44 this year". Based on what? There's no evidence of that. Our players are growing very quickly and even as quickly as they're growing, they've won exactly as many games as they should. Heck, most would say they're winning more games than they should.

Look around the league at teams that have as many young players on them or that have built for the most part through their draft picks. The successful ones (Denver, Utah, Sixers) are all winning around that 44 win mark THIS YEAR, but it took them time and sacrifice to get there. This young core might be good enough to make that leap NEXT YEAR and get to 44 wins... which is right around what I predicted.

Anyway, if you're not willing to listen to my point of view, then I can't help you man. I've provided a completely reasonable map of what is likely to happen to a team built around young guys. We know because we've seen it. The Nuggets are a really great team to look at as a model of what we should hope from our young guys. They drafted Jokic in 2014. Sort of whiffed in 2015 with Mudiay. Got Murray in 2016 and of course Mitchell in 2017. Their wins by year since 2014: 30, 33, 40, and this year they're on pace for 44 wins. That's a normal curve for a team that's built through the draft. They've got a really bright future with their young core, but they're not going to win 50 games this year. Probably not next year either.

Your assertion that we should have jumped from 26 wins to 44 wins... I just don't follow that. The jump we are on track for, 26 wins to about 35 wins, is already a GREAT jump.

So in conclusion, if we can turn Ingram, Kuzma, Zubac, Cleveland 1st into Kawhi I'm going to make that move (assuming Kawhi is healthy). And that's not a disrespect to Ingram who I like a lot and think will be very, very good in this league, but Kawhi Leonard is freaking Kawhi Leonard. So unless you think Ingram or Kuzma is an MVP, then I would figure this isn't that controversial of a move. And if we end up keeping Brandon, I'm not going to be upset because like I said: he's going to be a very good player.

 

Spoiler: Language