WMC 24-25: Dumb Finishing

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by puffyusaf#2, Aug 2, 2021.

  1. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    11,785
    Likes Received:
    23,917
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Brow-beater
    Location:
    Las Islas Filipinas
    Offline
    Throwing away the ball for no good reason:Kobe Snickering:
     
    Juronimo likes this.
  2. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,345
    Likes Received:
    76,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    in that pretty much all of his lineups are the bad ones?
     
  3. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    Then we'd be winless since he plays a lot.
     
  4. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,345
    Likes Received:
    76,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    thankfully, we've been kicking a** when he doesn't play. and we've also played an incredibly weak schedule.

    upload_2021-11-3_11-56-15.png
     
  5. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    Right..so basically we win because the team plays so great when he's off the floor. That's your take and well the schedule is weak. Check duly noted.
     
  6. JSM

    JSM - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    18,231
    Likes Received:
    70,472
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Negatives:

    - worst defense against the worst team in the league.
    -Bron and AD are playing with fire relying on "the switch" and relying on playing maybe 11-12 minutes of meaningful basketball for that to get us a win. If Russ doesn't drive that 3rd Q for us, that tactic fails miserably. They could've rested on the bench rather than on the court if they took their opponent seriously.
    - Our 3 ball was awful outside of Melo and surprisingly Bron. We need Ellington out there.
    - rebounding is a joke, playing small hurt us there.
    - the refs suck and our players aren't handling it well. I like what they're doing league wide. FTAs are down league wide. They're not bailing outthe Hardens and Traes of the world, but those aren't the type of calls they're missing against us.
     
    TIME, alam1108, Juronimo and 3 others like this.
  7. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,345
    Likes Received:
    76,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    well, it's my take and...the...actual facts of the situation?
     
    Pioneer10 likes this.
  8. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    You have to actually watch the games. Stats can be misleading.
     
  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,345
    Likes Received:
    76,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    i've seen some. so what's happening that coincides with russ being on the floor that makes us worse and doesn't involve russ?
     
  10. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    It's depends on who's on the court with him. It depends on what those guys are doing too, he's not playing 1 on 5. Some of these lineups he's in, aren't very good without Lebron or AD, definitely when both are off the court.
     
  11. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    13,585
    Likes Received:
    37,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Laker Land
    Offline
    Big 3 clicked but we barely won. Refs had some BS late in the fourth but the defense has to get better. Top 10 at the least if we want to win it all.
     
    lakerjones and abeer3 like this.
  12. Juronimo

    Juronimo - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,529
    Likes Received:
    6,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    plays with one's and zero's
    Location:
    the sky's the limit
    Offline
    The whole taking the 2 points away thing was a weird head scratching moment.
     
  13. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,059
    Likes Received:
    13,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    One could argue that the problem is the Lakers have too many players hurt particularly Dwight, Ariza, and THT who provide some semblance of a boost both offensively and defensively, but of the players here, Russ has been the problem

    upload_2021-11-3_10-21-17.png



    I mean no matter how you slice it using +/-, adjusted +/- (admittedly dogdgy due to small sample size), player tracking is that's he's just not been good or best neutral.
    If you take a look just his opponents: the opposing PG has outplayed in 4 out of the 5 matchups before the Rockets who don't really even start a PG.
    You can break this down where Lebron essentially turns into typical MVP caliber Lebron in terms of depending on the 3 vs driving to the rim as the ringer article shows.
     
    abeer3 likes this.
  14. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    Plus/minus is one the most useless stats in basketball. It's definitely one of the most overrated. It's totally dependent on who is on the floor with a particular player when he played. For instance last night, Bradley got cooked all game on D, didn't provide much on offense but somehow ended up Plus 2. Useless stat.

    On the other I hand, I totally agree that the 4 guys out right, will make everything look better.
     
  15. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,059
    Likes Received:
    13,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    It's a very useful stat but as any stat it has it's strength and weaknesses. Mainly small sample sizes that make it difficult to tease out lineup issues as you note..
    however with the growth of player tracking and +/- it really up it's value with metrics like Raptor +/-.

    Bradley is a good example: as it wasn't a great game for him but he also does not do negative things that are hard to see. he doesn't turn the ball over, he's in the right spots on offense and defense. OTOH you get to see the broad picture with Westbrook's defense where he gambles too much for steals or is out of position on defense at the 3 pt line because he's rebound hunting
     
    abeer3 likes this.
  16. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    Or Bradley just happened to be on the court with other guys that were playing better at the time. If you watched that game, there is no way you would conclude that Westbrook played poorly or Bradley, ,Reaves or Jordan played well. AD was in the negative. That stat is ambiguous at best.
     
  17. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    The Lakers are 5-1 after an 0-2 start, should be 6-0. Considering the almost total turnover of the roster, and missing some key players for the season thus far. I can't really complain about all that much. We haven't even played 20 games yet. If the big 3 stay injury free, I suspect that we'll be around the top 3 in the Conference, after this homestand and quick trip to Portland.
     
  18. Pioneer10

    Pioneer10 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    5,059
    Likes Received:
    13,744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    There are drastic differences between +/- stats. RAPM etc depend on increased sample size

    With just one game states, +/- can be more quirky and sure lineups are part of it. But there are reason guys like Reaves and before him Caruso shot up constantly as positive +/- despite box score which don't show much. I would actually conclude from the +/- from last nights game is that basically only Lebron stands out. Bradley/Westbrook/Reaves etc are just barely above or below 0.

    As someone who did watch the game, the fact Lebron stands make total sense. Pretty consistent with what the eye test would tell you that Lebron taking over in the 4th was the difference between the Rockets vs Lakers winning
     
    abeer3 and LaVarBallsDad like this.
  19. karacha

    karacha Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    8,637
    Likes Received:
    27,992
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    We're getting better, for sure. But that defense is horrible. Like, I know it's not the worst in the league, but it's really hard to watch sometimes. The team regressed so much, they are unrecognizable on D right now.
     
    JSM and Juronimo like this.
  20. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers MVP -

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    8,749
    Likes Received:
    7,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    But I didn't need any stats to recognize that about Bron. I thought that basically the trio played pretty well, Bron closed the show, and some of the role players had some issues with the Rockets young talent. It's not going to be your night every night as a role player.

    If stats and analytics are some folks thing, that's cool. I don't really look at them much until after 20-30 games. I do get more interested heading into the playoffs.
     

Share This Page