Wmc 15/16: We are finally at the END! BYE BYRON!!!

Yeah that's pretty silly. I understand frustration and I understand not wanting him on the team for rational reasons, but to say he's awful is just hyperbole.

 

Terrible, terrible game tonight. Yuck. I guess it was fun down the stretch at the end but it was awful ball by both teams for 40 plus minutes. I hated that the young guys got benched. This one did nothing for me at all. Hopefully it helps seals Boron's fate.

 

Seriously this was one of the ugliest games of basketball we've seen this year... That's saying something since we're second to last in the NBA for goodness' sake.

Phil was quoted after the game saying," Well that one set basketball back a couple years, didn't it?"

 

Phil right on point with that quote. It really was one of the ugliest games I've seen in quite some time. I mean that first quarter was such a turd. Really horrible. The whole game was just bad, bad, and more bad.

 

Skill wise, he is not awful. But he plays a losing style of basketball. He's a black hole who puts up stats, but obliterates the offensive flow. He is Byron's wet dream as he can just ISO at the top of the key which takes pressure of of Byron from having to run a play. You can't tell me that it's a coincidence that the second Lou and Kobe are back in the lineup, we play our ugliest game in the last month. I will stand by what I said. He is a loser. He plays the type of basketball that accumulates great stats for himself, but translates to a negative due to the black hole, momentum killing way he scores the points...and of course there's his defense. I didn't say he was awful. He in fact has an elite NBA skill (drawing fouls). But team after team dump him because they have discovered he doesn't just put up the dreaded "empty points," he's also not good for team flow. I'm not saying anything against him as a person either. I'm calling him a loser because the way he contributes to a game is loser's basketball.

 

I just don't agree with him being a loser. While I don't like the fact he was in at the end of the game, he made winning plays against the Knicks. He's not a loser, he just needs to be utilized correctly.

With Byron Scott coaching the team, that can't happen. Not to mention I've already said I'm fine trading him because D'Angelo and Jordan are more ready than the Lakers thought they'd be. There will absolutely be buyers for Lou Williams this summer at that price point. Just wait and see what similar players go for under the new CBA.

I agree that Lou kills our ball movement, but there will ALWAYS be room for a player that can create his own shot, get to the foul line, and instantly get an offense going. Lou can do that, he just needs to be put in situations where he cannot monopolize possessions. If he tries to, pull him and put someone else in the game. Our coach cannot figure out how to do that and instead encourages him to take over possessions and marginalize the rest of the players on the court. That's on coaching, not on Lou.

Saying Lou sucks is hyperbole. He doesn't suck, he's just not a perfect fit here. Not with the coach and personnel we have. If we get rid of Byron and bring in a coach that knows what he's doing, I'm fine keeping Lou and I think most people will realize his value if/when he's used appropriately. Yesterday our kids were flat and Kobe stunk so there was no offense to be had. It's nice to have a guy like Lou who you can put out on the floor and he can get you baskets. You just need to know how/when to use him the right way and we don't have that.

 

Once again, I didn't say he sucks or that he was awful. I just said he plays losing basketball. You could say the same thing about Cousins. He obviously doesn't suck, but more and more things are coming out about him which contributes to losing basketball. Therefore, Cousins is a loser.

If our guys come out flat and they are pulled to put Lou in, that's a great way to make sure they all stay flat. Putting in a black hole isn't going to start any sort of flow the guys can step into. And Byron isn't completely to blame with Lou as I've seen Raptor fans and Hawks fans say the same sort of things about him. Byron obviously empowers him a bit too much, but it's still on him. The reason Lou gets the run he does is because he's a 90s type player. Heavy ISO, playground style ball...you know...the kind Byron loves.

I totally get what you are saying. And there is a place for him in this league, but not on a legit contender. He's a Stealth Tank type player. A GM can bring him in to say, "Look at this guy! He's dropping 15-20 ppg. Our team isn't totally hopeless! I'm doing a good job." When the reality is he is going to screw up your offense just enough to where you will lose. Unfortunately, I don't think he was brought in by our team as part of the Stealth Tank. He's actually Byron's IDEAL player.

 

I didn't say you. I think it was @Lakers2015 that said he sucked and I disagreed. I also disagree he's a loser. I'm not sure there's much evidence to back that up. Cousins is the superstar of the team. It's on him to carry Sacramento to victory. Lou is something like Mike Miller or Kyle Korver. He has one role and he does it well. If that's with a good team, his "loser" tag doesn't exist. Since it's with bad teams, then sure you can say he's a loser. By that token so are the kids on our team though, especially Clarkson who has now been on the two worst Laker teams ever. I don't agree with it, just saying situation is fluid. I wouldn't consider Antawn Jamison a loser, but he never really won much.

I don't agree with that. Sometimes the best thing a team can have is just someone putting the ball in the basket. Once the lid comes off, the team picks up confidence. Look at the difference in body language from the start of the game to the end when Lou was effective. That effectiveness becomes contagious. It's the responsibility of the coach to know when to pull him or at least when to put the kids in to supplement the run. With Kobe on the team though, that's not going to happen.

I see what you're saying, I just think that if he's put in a situation to succeed he's not a stealth tank player. HOWEVER, when coupled with a tanking coach, his play gets put into that position so your argument becomes valid. Give us a good coach and he'll be a more effective player. He'll still shoot a lot, but it'd be within a system designed to suit him instead of him stopping the ball every play and taking a shot. That's not cohesive basketball and I think we'd all hate playing with a guy like that. I blame him a little, but I blame Byron a lot.

Sorry about the breakdown style, but I'm so tired I can only comprehend one paragraph at a time.

 

You're right, I'm sorry. Actually you said "he's awful". You didn't say he sucked.

My fault. I still disagree with that though.

I brought them up as examples of role players that fill a need and when put on good teams that play to their strengths they're considered assets. You're correct, Miller and Korver are both shooters so their roles are slightly different than a guy like Lou, but my point still stands. If Korver or Miller were on bad teams, they'd be thought of as good players on crappy teams which most people don't take seriously. Once they were put on good teams in positions to succeed, their reputations changed. Lou is on a bad team right now, so it's easy to characterize him as a loser.

My contention is that the loser here is the coach Byron Scott who cannot come up with ways to make Lou effective within a team concept.

 

I honestly believe that if Byron is fired, the FO won't do it because of his performance. I actually think they are dumb enough to believe he didn't get a fair shot. The Front Office will fire him due to public perception. Mitch will talk about his difficult position with Kobe and the kids. Ex Showtime teammates will come running to his defense and Magic will crush Jim Buss.

All of this will allow Byron to be fired with some dignity...But Byron deserves no such dignity. Byron deserves to be marched down Figueroa with people slinging poo at him and Mike D'Antoni walking behind him ringing a bell and chanting, "Shame... Shame... Shame..."

 

I can't figure it out. The Knicks game, I think they were deferring to Kobe. Then they didn't get to finish because of Lou, so that hurts for sure. Tonight, they sucked to start, before Lou even came in, but I think it has to do with playing next to Hibbert and MWP. MWP can't shoot, and Hibbert is a statue. You put Russ, JC, and Randle next to Bass or Black, maybe even nance at the 3, they start to look like a different team. Bass and Black run pick and roll, black has chemistry with Russ. Nance moves without the ball, and they all like to run, it fits. Hibbert, MWP, Kobe, Lou, they slow things down, ball stoppers.

 

Forgot my WMC. Ryan Kelly. Stop. Just stop. He doesn't belong on the court, he doesn't belong playing the 3, stop trolling us, it's not funny. You want to give MWP a few minutes at the 3 as his career ends, fine. You want to play Young a little, even better. Heck, Nance is a fine option there, but STOP with Ryan Kelly.

 

Why the f*** is he still playing? He's clearly not a SF and at this point I doubt he's even an NBA player.

I'd prefer Black, Nance Jr., or Randle at the 3 at any given moment over Ryan Kelly.