To Serve And Protect

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by Barnstable, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I don't buy the race crap. It's just completely untrue. Are there racists? Sure, in every single profession in this world, there is someone with some type of racism/prejudice in them. What I've seen a lot in news and in general protests is it's cops vs blacks, or mexicans, or purple, or blue. No. Just no. I'm a minority in my department (we're comprised of mostly whites, I'm Mexican) and I do not see that here at all, or at any other agencies I've had the pleasure of working with. I'll find it later when I'm not tired, but there is a stat that in fact, whites are the majority casualty in officer involved shootings. It's just they're not reported on as often as a white officer shooting a black, or Mexican. Now I stand by Wilson, from the evidence, to witnesses, I just feel an indictment was not warranted. Now for this NYC thing, it looks like the officer either had a lack of training, or just had anger issues. We are taught a carotid choke hold that cuts off blood oxygen to the brain that renders an unruly suspect unconscious. But we never do it standing and never beyond 20-25 seconds, as it can cause brain damage. He won't be indicted, but I'm sure there will be a civil lawsuit that either him or the department will be paying.

    If anything, I suppose it would be considered more about police training and tactics rather than cops vs blacks. The whole racism thing just is not the truth... at all.
     
  2. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I just feel you underestimate Brown's ability. You say had Wilson had no gun, Brown would be in jail. While I say, if Wilson had no gun, Brown would've overpowered Wilson (Brown and his friend) and would've took his baton,mace or something blunt and killed Wilson and we'd be having a funeral for Wilson. And then a movement would be created for Officers to have guns...
     
  3. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    There's no way you can know that. Your department, you work for might be great. it also might not reflect the attitudes of all departments across the country, like Willson's former department that was shut down because of repeated racist complaints and lawsuits. The LAPD was turned upside down after the LA Riots and before that had a ton of racism lawsuits and complaints form the black community. And like I said before, I don't feel this is all white power and KKK stuff. Nowadays it's about stereotyping IMO. Those stereotypes are only concerned with race and no other factors. That's not overt and you wouldn't just know everyone's attitudes unless you talk to them about it. Have you talked to all of your fellow officers about it or have you attended some kind of training where everyone was talking about their attitudes? I really want to know because that would be awesome and would at least give me some insight into why you feel so sure that none of this is about racism.

    But read those #alivewhileblack tweets and explain how those incidents weren't racist. These are people sharing their experiences. If you think they're all lying then I don't know what to tell you. Why do the overwhelming majority of black people across gender, economic, and employment lines across the US that speak on this topic saying essentially the same thing?

    Also, I'm sure the great majority of people shot by the police are white. That only makes sense being that white people are the majority in the country. But again, this isn't about who was killed by the police. These protests are about who is getting killed by the police unjustly. Who is unarmed and getting shot by the police. Who is being shot and killed as a first option in police encounters.
     
  4. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I don't think it's just whites, but I do think this is mostly just racist stereotyping.

    Why with the police? Who would be most effected by racist stereotyping from law enforcement? The races most stereotyped as law breakers. All stereotypes (that I can think of off the top of my head) have a hint of truth to them IMO. Blacks do have a higher percentage of crime in general. But it's racist if you let that fact overshadow other facts such as a person wearing a 3 piece suit, black or not, probably isn't trying to rob anyone (to reference the example I gave earlier), or the fact that crime is way down amongst blacks, or the fact that most black people aren't criminals in the first place. If you assume a random black person is a criminal, you're going to be wrong waaaaaayyy more than right.
     
  5. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

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    I actually think I agree with this, but we will probably never know if these cops involved were racist... The two incidents were about people refusing to listen to cops.

    So, I think it 99% is about police training. (And to me, that includes the police force realizing that there are/should be a better/nonlethal alternative to take out a threat than to use a gun)
     
  6. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

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    @Barnstable I think the issue is bigger than race stereotyping; we have to deal with the whole issue of generalizations. The thing is, we generalize people based on our past experience whether we want to or not. Color of skin, gender, clothing, style of speech, hygiene... We use these generalizations to survive the best way we can - decide who to approach in a social situation, sexual preference, level of intelligence/responsibility, and in the case of a police officer, handle a dangerous situation. I think it comes down to personal responsibility and people stopping committing crime for our generalizations to stop. You can say race this and race that, but both Brown and Garner were doing illegal acts (robbing a store/walking in the middle of the street, selling cigarettes/resisting arrest). Brown's illegality and violence lead to his killing. Garner's illegality and neglect led to his accidental death. Here's how those two problems never happened in the first place: Brown obeys the law, and if he disobeyed it, he doesn't act violently; Garner obeys the law, and if he disobeys it, he listens to the cops when they want to detain him. The solution is in acting legally. We can stop generalizing negatively when we can stop acting negatively/illegally.
     
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  7. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I see, so Blacks shouldn't expect to be treated without assumption of being a criminal until we stop crime. Let's look deeper at this assertion. Let's go in descending order from a broader picture of the percentages of crime to a more narrow view

    1. Men of all races, commit somewhere around 80% of all crime in this country.
    2. Whites commit around 69% of all crime in this country according to the FBI over the past 3 years
    3. Poor people of all races and ethnicities commit more crime, in approximately the same percentages (and specifically across black and white racial lines).
    4. Blacks, as a percentage to our population, commit more crimes than other races.

    All four statements above are true... why is statement 4 the only one that's important in justifying criminal assumptions and racism? The thought of assuming/treating all men in this country like criminals would be laughable, yet it's ok to treat all blacks like criminals? The thought of assuming/treating all white people in this country like criminals would be laughable, yet it's ok to treat all blacks like criminals? The thought of assuming/treating all poor people of all races in this country like criminals would be laughable, yet it's ok to treat all blacks like criminals?

    it is nothing short of racist to just skip over male, white, and poor, (at the very least) as valid points of criminal assumption/treatment in order to settle on black as a good point of evaluation.
     
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  8. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    ^^
    Well said. What are the %'s of each race in #4? I think that could be why #4 seems to be the most influential factor in how a race is viewed and treated.
     
  9. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

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    No, I'm saying that it's much more than just color of skin. Based off generalizations, I would expect a white person with a scraggly and unkept beard, wearing a sweat-stained tanktop and jean shorts to be more likely to commit a crime than a black/brown/purple person wearing a business suit and a cleanly shaven face (related to your #3). I'm saying that I think it's generalizations based much more than just color of skin.

    I don't think it's okay to treat anyone like a criminal, unless they are a criminal - and in both these two killings/deaths, they were breaking the law. I don't think @davriver209 goes around judging people to be a criminal unless they're actually doing something they shouldn't be doing. There are most definitely some racist cops out there, but as @davriver209 said with his experience, it isn't a racist culture in the force.
     
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  10. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter much for black people if we're neatly dressed, or sagging with a wife beater. Often times we get treated the same no matter what we wear, what we drive, or how we talk. That's racist. That's about the color of our skin and not not any other factors. Those #alivewhileblack tweets were examples.

    I kind of get why dav might feel that way, but I can't comprehended how anyone else could feel that way. How many examples of police corruption and black people explaining this do people need to believe this s*** happens... a lot. Like I said before, I think most cops are good. Most departments are good for the most part. but I don't think you are paying attention to how often some of these departments are getting sued, or having an inordinate amount of complaints about racist actions. Please read this as an example:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...e-racist-and-violent-and-theres-only-one-fix/
     
  11. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I've been traveling all day for work. I just need to chill for the night. I'll try to get some numbers about that tomorrow
     
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  12. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ca-cop-fired-violence-resolve-situation/
     
  13. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    That's unbelievable. Most police I've encountered are terrible at handing mental health situations. This guy was an exception and he gets fired. crazy
     
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  14. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    If you have group A, consisting of 100 people and 5 commit a crime. And you have group B, consisting of 20 people, and 10 commit a crime,
    Follow protocol or be fired. SMH

    They've gotta be educated.

    "You gonna show me some of that Rodney King ish?"
    "Naw, we don't roll like that no more."
    - Denzel and Hawke - - Training Day

    A reporter I follow on FB in the Bay Area says he goes into the roughest neighborhoods and interviews anyone / everyone in the most dangerous situations. He never gets hurt because people can see he's authentic and truly cares. Until police adopt this attitude, we're gonna continue having problems.
     
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  15. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    He'll appeal that termination and win, trust me. It's just a bunch of rich people complaining that there was a disturbance that wasn't dealt with quickly.

    And as far as the overall theme of this thread, all this stuff about cops aiming for blacks, Mexicans and such, it's just lack of training. I feel the media and the people who feel they were victimized are making it into a race issue when it's just not the truth. We are well beyond the caveman ages of policing. You may not believe from all the "killing of blacks" the media portrays, but agencies take the issue of racism and prejudice seriously. They might not find it instantly, but they do find it, and they'll weed it out.

    But like I said, racism, prejudice still exists in every single profession. So of course a bad egg or two always slips through the cracks.
     
  16. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown - Lakers Starter -

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    You won't see Obama sending anyone to his funeral, hell it probably won't make the national news.
     
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  17. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    ^But they'll all be indicted. If a police officer killed them, he wouldn't even be indicted if it looked like he was in the wrong
     
  18. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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  19. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown - Lakers Starter -

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    If a police officer robbed them, drug them into the woods and murdered them, I sure hope he would be indicted.
     
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  20. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Holder took the Death Penalty off the table. Why? Media kept this off the radar. Pretty amazing / ballsy. But sadly, I'm not surprised.
     

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