To Serve And Protect

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by Barnstable, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Occupation:
    Police Officer
    Location:
    Stockton, CA
    Offline
    We should change this thread to the good ol law enforcement thread.

    And Barnstable, we could go back and forth all day. From the get go, I didn't like how "secretive" they were after the incident. Transparency is huge and they didn't handle the situation well at all. It sounds lame, but the i stand by justice system when it indicts people and when it doesn't.

    And to whoever asked me if I'd shoot someone. I would if the individual presented a danger to me or my fellow officers, or any innocent people, family etc..
     
  2. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    I asked you if you would kill someone. I understand disabling someone (taser) when they present a danger, but a gun seems over the top to me... Had Wilson not been carrying a gun in the first place, Brown would have been in jail and we would have had a much better handling of the case, so he could give his side of the story and not be dead.
     
  3. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    I think it's fair to say that Brown was clearly in the wrong, but there is some very fishy "evidence" going on here - that is to say, it is possible that Wilson took extreme measures. I also think that the racist aspect of this case is blown out of proportion, and that this is more an issue with fighting violence with lethality. While there very well might have been a racist mindset, I think that had Brown not been causing a disturbance/breaking the law, we wouldn't have had the problem in the first place.
     
  4. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    You do know that Wilson's previous police department was disbanded due to repeated racist lawsuits and practices right?

    Anonymous also said they have proof of a connection between the KKK and Wilson but they haven't released it yet because the mole in the Fergusson police department that gave them the info said their life would be at risk if Anonymous released it. The info would reveal the mole's name. They said they will release it once they know they can do it in a way that won't put the mole's life in danger.

    Does it prove Wilson is racist, no. It's just yet another point, amongst a ton, that makes giving Wilson the benefit of the doubt preposterous IMO.
     
  5. thkthebest

    thkthebest Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    2,300
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Not sure if this were posted, but um...

    "Grand Jury Indicted The Man Who Filmed Eric Garner’s Killing"

    http://ringoffireradio.com/2014/12/grand-jury-indicted-the-man-who-filmed-eric-garners-killing/
     
  6. ThizGuy83

    ThizGuy83 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Occupation:
    Medical healthcare professional
    Location:
    So Cali
    Offline
    wow. The Michael brown situation. I dont really have a side to pick on that one but garner situation. That is just bad all over for the police. And the fact the cop did not get indicted but yet the person recording the incident did? Wtf is all that about?? Im completely on garners side for the fact he didn't do anything but stood there with hands up and the cop choking him having a history of being over aggressive
     
  7. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline
    The Garner situation is disturbing on many levels. Why were the cops there? Because he was selling cigarettes (that is what most of his arrests have been for). Apparently a fight took place and some say he broke it up. 6 cops for that? 6 cops trying to arrest him, yet again, for selling cigarettes. Think about that for a little while. The city of NY wants their tax money on those cigarettes. 6 cops. What a waste of resources. What a waste of a life for no reason, other than he was frustrated with the harassment. I'm sorry, but selling cigarettes illegally is so minor. I'm not saying he shouldn't have complied, because when a cop tells you something, you do it. But none of this would have taken place if they weren't on the prowl for those circumventing the tax codes in NY.
     
  8. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
  9. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    Anybody remember this?:



    Oh yeah, you'll never guess what happened.... surprise!!! No indictment by the city prosecutors on the guard assaulting an innocent black man as he walks by. Prosecutors didn't even contact he victim to talk about it.... but oh, race has nothing to do with this case [/sarcasm]

    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...rity-guard-who-pepper-sprayed-raymond-wilford
     
  10. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline
    To be fair, I can bring up MANY cases of black on white crime that never made the news. Just recently 3 black guys kidnapped and murdered a cop. You would think with all the racism covering the news it would be reported. But IMO, it's one-sided. I know that's not cops killing white people (which happens 3 times as often as cops killing black people), but just showing how the media reports (or doesn't) isn't fair either.
     
  11. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    I'm not talking about the media reporting (which is terrible and agenda driven for all major US networks), I'm talking about the guard racially profiling a black man walking by, assaulting him, and once again, nothing happens to the guard or the racist white guy harassing the protesters, that was the real problem. No repercussions at all.

    Regarding cops killing whites 3 times as often as cops killing blacks, that's misleading. The topic is about the circumstances of these killings, not just that a killing happened. Unarmed black men being killed. Black men posing no immediate threat being killed. Black men and children (Tamir Rice) given no chance to comply to a police command and instead just being shot immediately upon police arrival. You show me that those 3 times as many whites that were killed were unarmed, or in a similar circumstance and that figure would be relevant to these examples, but I guarantee you, overwhelmingly, they weren't.
     
  12. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    Like I said, there is some probable racism going on in the Ferguson case, but there is also plenty of crime that Brown committed, so the lack of indictment to me isn't so "black-and-white" as the tragedy with Eric Garner.

    There shouldn't be benefit of the doubt given to white people over black people. But shouldn't the benefit of the doubt be given to cops? I'm not saying it should, I'm just proposing a question.
     
    John3:16 likes this.
  13. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    The benefit of the doubt is already given to the cops. That's why when they kill someone unjustly, they just get fired instead of going to prison for murder/manslaughter/etc. What do you call it when there's no repercussions at all? What's the next level after the benefit of the doubt? That's what cops are getting in most of these cases.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014
  14. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    Yes but is it justified to give cops the benefit of the doubt? Doesn't it make more sense to give them the benefit rather than the supposed criminal?
     
  15. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    Your supposition that cops should be given the benefit of the doubt inherently assumes they deserve it. That's not everyone's experience with cops. Would you give the benefit of the doubt to the cops if your experience was them harassing you and your family? Wrongfully targeting you unjustly? Killing people you know for infractions that don't deserve death? Black people are telling you that all too often, that's our experience with cops.

    You giving the cop the benefit of the doubt in your example already supposes that anyone the cops point to is a criminal by default. That's how authoritarian corrupt people keep power... by saying you shouldn't question their authority, motives, and ethics, because they are beyond reproach. You should always be willing to question anyone and everyone with power over the masses.
     
  16. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    I implore all of you to read these two diametrically opposed links (I can't seem to post all the tweets in them). They highlight exactly what I'm talking about with the racist stereotyping and what people's experiences have been:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/criming-while-white-hashtag_n_6265480.html

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...are-a-powerful-response-to-crimingwhilewhite/

    People are telling you through social media what their experiences have been. Thousands of people. Don't ignore it or downplay it just because you haven't had the same experience.
     
  17. FreeThePeople

    FreeThePeople - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    219
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Offline
    @Barnstable I see your point. You're saying that cops (sometimes) overstep their boundaries when dealing with black people/minorities, and are (sometimes) too easygoing when dealing with white people. And it's not you, it's people sharing their experiences that makes this point true.

    So how are you supposed to deal with that? Protesting against racism is obviously step #1, and is what people have been doing. Then what?
     
    Barnstable likes this.
  18. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,641
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline
    If white cops are overstepping their grounds, the next question is why? Fear? Racism? Assumption based on something? And what can be done to stop it?
     
  19. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    Exactly.

    But I don't think there's a quick fix. Things are most certainly getting better. Everyone should be encouraged by this fact. We just can't be complacent for thinking things are fixed and those that don't experience this kind of thing shouldn't minimize the impact it has on some people.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  20. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2014
    Messages:
    7,111
    Likes Received:
    17,902
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Offline
    i'll try to answer this later after work
     

Share This Page