To Serve And Protect

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by Barnstable, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Totally agree.
     
  2. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    It also has a lot to do with how Police are trained. Huge amounts of money goes into convincing local PDs to train like the military, act like the military, and be equipped like the military. Many of the training videos and techniques prepare officers to behave and react like military men in a war zone with the citizens they arrest being painted like rebels as if they were terrorist in Baghdad. As someone who trains in a field of law enforcement ( a juvenile detention center) I will tell you what gets wired gets fired. If you train a cop to be on edge expecting that everyone has or is a huge threat, then give them the gear for it, they are going to act on it. Dallas has made huge progress over the last 7 years with its PD because it has rejected this model and focused on community based policing. Dallas cops have been trained to be a part of their community and not the occupiers of their communities.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-those-things-could-now-be-more-difficult/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/dallas-police/490583/
     
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  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    On the one hand I understand that type of training is necessary for surviving life and death situations, but you're right it will condition them to behave a certain way. Police officers are supposed to be peacekeepers really, not taskmasters.
     
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  4. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    For the record I completely agree that police need training to prevent them from being killed on the job, but in my experience this is often done in a matter that stresses what is the potential for danger vs what is the actual danger.

    For example in our deescalation training we historically taught that we have to continually look for the potential risk and act in accordingly. The problem with that is that it is a horrible way to make decisions as it only measures the worst case scenario and ignores other factors like frequency or magnitude. If we approached everyday situations like that we would never fly in an airplane as it has the potential to be catastrophic. When you add frequency into the equation you see that while plane crashes are quite horrific, they very seldom happen in the US.

    If you run police through terrorist based, psycho killer based training all day they will see everyone on their beat as a terrorist, psycho killer. Add this to the fact that it is one of the hardest jobs in the world and the broken perspective that poor minorities are dangerous criminals, and boom you have the recipe for an unarmed therapist getting shot while laying down.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
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  5. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    QFT.

    That in a nut shell is the racist part that I'm talking about. Conditioning to think of black people as more of a threat, therefore reacting to them more extreme, with less concern for their humanity.
     
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  6. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    See, this is how you do it. Kudos to Phoenix for how they're handling BLM protests:

    "Phoenix police sees Black Lives Matter as a ‘partner’
    POSTED 1:51 PM, JULY 19, 2016, BY CNN WIRE, UPDATED AT 07:05PM, JULY 20, 2016

    **Embargo: Phoenix, Az** The Phoenix Black Lives Matter group hosted a forum, featuring a panel which included top city and community leaders.

    PHOENIX, Az. — The Phoenix Black Lives Matter group hosted a forum, featuring a panel which included top city and community leaders.

    An overflow crowd filled Phillips Memorial CME Church Monday night.

    “The Phoenix Police Department doesn’t see Black Lives Matter as a terrorist organization. We view Black Lives Matter as a partner who holds us accountable,” Assistant Police Chief Mike Kurtenbach told the diverse crowd.

    “We stand with you to find solutions,” he said.


    The Phoenix Black Lives Matter group hosted a forum, featuring a panel which included top city and community leaders.

    The discussion hit on transparency, diversity, and training in Phoenix and other police departments.

    “If you want to improve policing, become an officer! We’re hiring,” Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton told the crowd.

    “We want our police department to be as diverse as our community,” he added.

    Stanton said Phoenix will hire 400 officers over the next two years.

    Stanton was joined by Dr. Matthew Whitaker, Amanda Blackhorse, Clottee Hammons, Richard Crews, Stephen Benedetto, and Vice Mayor Kate Gallego.

    The Phoenix Black Lives Matter group is separate from the one that has led protests through Phoenix city streets two Fridays in a row.

    Last Friday, activists gathered at 24th Street and Camelback, protesting what they call racially-biased policing. The Rev. Jarrett Maupin organized the event. He is pushing back against police brutality and pushing for a 12-point reform plan.

    On June 8, a downtown Phoenix rally organized by Maupin ended with police deploying their pepper spray at a crowd of hundreds. Police ended up arresting three people for allegedly throwing rocks at officers.

    “This isn’t about division; this isn’t about thinking differently and being on opposite sides of the street. This is about coming together,” said Kurtenbach."

    http://wtvr.com/2016/07/19/phoenix-police-sees-black-lives-matter-as-a-partner/
     
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  7. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    Let me preface this by saying that I understand that a lot of folks will not like what I am about to say...

    But that conditioning is not just being done at the police academy, its being done on the TV, at the movie theater, and especially on the radio. Billions of dollars are being generated by folks who sell the completely false image of black men and women that is consumed not just by other races and effects their view of blacks, but black folks and greatly effects their view of themselves. I don't want to go off on a tangent regarding lost person hood, but this is a huge problem in America that is just ignored or even celebrated.
     
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  8. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    You're knocking it out the park Sama :KobePoint:
     
  9. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    And then there's this element:

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    So he wasn't trying to hit the therapist, he was trying to hit the autistic kid. That's much better[/sarcasm]

     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
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  11. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    That's what I figured. No better. Still frustrating.
     
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  12. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    well that makes it way better, he was actually trying to kill the autistic man playing with a train and missed at that distance... glad that is all cleared up.
     
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  13. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    Actually really good to hear Barnes, seriously, congrats brotha. And we'll obviously not agree on this, but hey, what can you do? And this recent shooting, it looks bad, really bad. Someone is losing their job.
     
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  14. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    I think a balance of training is a good thing. I don't agree with people wanting to de-militrize the police for several obvious reasons. Shooting sprees are becoming more and more frequent. Gangs are better equipped than actual police depts. Im sure many of you remember the LA robbers that outgunned the LAPD...

    Depts are starting to focus more and more on community relations, but don't expect depts to abandon their training on officer Safety.
     
  15. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    Well peacekeepers and enforce the law as well. I'm not sure what departments focus just soley on these life or death scenarios, but I don't think its a bad thing to do so.

    I've been trained over and over on what we call "officer safety". While we don't want to be overbearing, we also don't want to be complacent. It's actually a pretty common occurance where we don't do a pat search of some kind, and the person has a gun, or a knife, its just better for us to be safe than sorry.
     
  16. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    I am not saying that we should stop having swat teams or special groups within the PDs that can interacts with the rare need for heavy force. I am saying that training all police officers like they are in a combat zone and having them drive armored vehicles around town on a regular bases doesn't help anyone. Cops can't see the people they work to keep safe as the enemy waiting around every corner.

    Furthermore, I never said stop training on officer safety. As someone who understands the realities of that pencil easily becomes a shiv, I know first hand that officer safety is of up most importance. The problem with the thinking that is currently going on is that it leads officers to see everyone as a threat to there life and to react as if everyone is going to attack. Imagine if drivers ed was that way. Driving a car can be extra ordinarily dangerous. It is literally a life and death exercise. Should we train all drivers to operate like the freeway is a death trap? Of course not, it would cause accidents to go up because people are overly hyped. Same with cops, my officers, etc. If you train that everyone has a weapon, you act like everyone has a weapon. And instead of de-escalating situations, you over react and escalate it putting yourself and the other person in harms way. I have seen it first hand literally hundreds of times. Bad situations made worse by staff over reacting. Staff that become the aggressor because they have been taught that its me or them and I am going home tonight, when remaining level headed solves the issue. Perfect examples of the teacher in Austin and the shooting in Miami yesterday.

    Listen, I'm not just making this stuff up, I work as a part of law enforcement(I'm a Juvenile Supervision Officer and Juvenile Probation Officer), and with Police Departments. I have had long conversations with great cops who will tell you the same thing. I have seen great cops do great things for kids. I also am a certified training in de-escalation and have been training and doing it for years.


    We don't need this going on in America:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
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  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I've never said nor will I ever say that we shouldn't train officers to be able to defend themselves. My solution to the Minnesota situation (and I have absolutely zero training) would have been to ask the guy who admitted to having gun on him at the time would have been to calmly ask him to step out of the vehicle so that I could remove the gun from the conversation. I don't want or expect any officer to put himself too far out there where he feels unsafe especially in this climate.

    I do however agree with Sama's take on having a different mentality towards the constituents that police officers are supposed to be protecting.
     
  18. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I'm a big proponent of being a part of the change you want to see if you feel really strongly about something.

    I'll either be a part of the solution, or see things aren't what I thought they were (which I'm sure is the case in some ways. You don't know a job till you actually do it). Either way, it will be good.
     
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  19. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Christ that is tough to watch.
     
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