To Serve And Protect

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by Barnstable, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh my gosh I've seen this one... Not dangerous to the officer really, but truly stupid. The worst kind of stupid. The kind of stupid that think they're smart and above everyone else despite spouting stupidity... Yeesh.

    I've always thought about being an officer because I have a desire to help people and I think that's what an officer is supposed to be about, but having to deal with that is a pretty unenviable task. Of course that and the murdering, life endangering, horrifying experiences that come from being a police officer.
     
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  2. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

    It's a long read, but it has the stats that I refer to. But I can summarize it real quick.

    While

    http://www.colorofcrime.com/2016/03/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

    There you go, it's a long read, but has stats and the author has citations and all that Jazz.

    But just like any study, including mine and yours, it can be interpreted in a way that fits anyone cause. The stat that "shows" blacks are more likely to be shot comes down to one dirty truth that the media and many others fail to say. It's that Police have more contacts with blacks. It's not cause Police in general love to hunt down and arrest/kill people simply cause they have a darker skin tone than them, it's cause with Blacks being only 13% of the population, they make up over 50% of the violent crimes and 50% of the murder rates, so that in itself, can make a statistical anomaly when conducting other studies.

    So when a certain race makes up that much of the criminal activity, its only natural that race are "more likely" to be shot by police, because of the sheer overwhelming number of contacts that we have with them, and the circumstances for that contact. And when you get people swept up with this notion that police officers are after blacks because.... they're black, by the way, which was based on a lie (Ferguson), than you get the following results.

    More anti-police rhetoric, which is fueled by the BLM whom I despise. It leads to any shooting involving a black skinned person to be immediately labeled as a victim and the cop a killer when the facts have yet to be determined. It leads to cops who have no ill intent, to be killed in the line of duty by men who take this anti-police rhetoric to an extreme.

    And you're statement about whites being filmed in cop shootings and what not, is simply not true. It doesn't make the news because it won't draw viewers. If you have a headline with "Black unarmed kid, killed by White Cop" it's gonna turn heads, and it'll continue this racial division that has been created by the media thus creating more viewers and more stories to cover when their is more protests.

    I think the culture that the media is creating, political leaders and even blacks are creating for themselves is a dangerous one. Watch out, youre a minority so you might be shot, or people are against you, or the man is trying to keep you down, etc... I don't think that's an environment that is good to bring a child in that is black. I thought that barrier was broken down once Obama became president.... When Eric Holder became Attorney General, where some powerful positions in states and cities have been filled by blacks...

    I'm not sure how much more common sense and reason I can bring to the table without allowing my bias in and emotion...
     
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  3. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    First, not true. Police have more contact with blacks in inner cities, but the majority of police interactions are with whites in the US, which makes sense because blacks are only 13% of the population, while whites are around 63%. In 2013 whites accounted for 6,214,197 arrests, while blacks only accounted for 2,549,655.

    Most statistics that are complete enough to draw a conclusion from, account for the disparity in arrest numbers by only counting the percentage killed by police during arrest, such as what I posted earlier. So as you can see, police are way more likely to kill a black person they are arresting than a white person, even though they arrest way more white people:

    [​IMG]

    "To be clear, the above chart deals with people being arrested by the police. In other words, police shoot and kill black people they are arresting far more often than they shoot and kill white people they are arresting."

    See above

    It is terrible that innocent police officers that I would bet were good men and women trying to do a good job, have been targeted and killed by lunatics, but I agree with real on this one. It doesn't feel right. Like there is an agenda being pushed here that is not happening organically.

    Still, officers like yourself, that excuse and diminish every police killing don't help the situation. If you and a good number of the police would look at this objectively, you would not be able to defend some of the videos you've seen. BLM is a product of you, not holding your fellow officers accountable if they very obviously commit a crime. Police need to police themselves, and they are not.

    Then you have other officers taking their hate for BLM to the extreme, and calling the protesters target practice on FB, or calling for citizens to run them over and explaining how they can get away with it:

    [​IMG]

    That was posted by Sergeant Jeffrey M. Rothecker of the Saint Paul Police Department .

    And fear mongering

    "Sheriff Ric Bradshaw of the Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office was speaking to a crowd of the “dangers” of protesters who block highways in attempts to bring attention to the police slayings of American citizens."

    "“With our limited budget, we just don’t have the manpower to be policing the community like we should be. You should be very concerned if you come across these protesters because they are very violent thugs and have even killed white people with hammers in other parts of the country. Now they are blocking the roads with their arms in barrels and we just don’t know what those barrels contain. The all we know, they could contain weapons to use when unsuspecting drivers get close. If you see these people, stop your vehicle as far as possible and back away before they can attack.”"

    Who's talking about the media. I'm talking about Youtube.

    If these crazy unjustified killings of blacks happened to white people too, nearly as often as blacks, it would be all over youtube, and some conservative news organization or at least a blog, would have compiled it to counter BLM argument, and say "See, it happens to whites just as much". That compilation doesn't exist, because it doesn't happen to whites as often.
     
  4. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    By the way we solved about 90% of the problem right here in this thread: body cams.

    Still waiting on somebody to prove that one wrong and tell me why it won't work.

    Everybody in the media and on both sides of the fence are busy pointing fingers and shouting, but where are the solutions? Protests are great, but nobody is providing ANSWERS to the problems. Here's one! Body cams! Nobody can lie if everything is on tape. We see the entire thing unfold.

    Obviously the other part of the problem is the perceived persecution, which I think now it can be safely said goes both ways. Now both sides understand the sting of feeling persecuted, so there's common ground to lean on. THAT is the side of the argument that needs to be talked out in a progressive way. The violent side, the literal side, can be fixed with body cams and there's nobody that has told me why it can't happen besides that it would cost money. If that's what it costs right now, then so be it. It's better to spend money than lose lives on either side.
     
  5. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    Like I stated, you can interpret any stat and use it as "proof" of your stance. With the criminal acti

    Well I presented a through enough research to show why the stats you presented, are the way they are. Like i said, with blacks committing 50% of the violent crimes and 50% of the murders in this country, it's going to present statistical anomalies in other studies. BUT, I'm not gonna type in here like I'm some statistician cause I'm not.

    studies fail to take into account the type of contacts they're having with the individuals, the specific certain circumstances that are presented in each contact, and all the other things that go along with each encounter...

    And I do not diminish each shooting, each one that presents itself, I wait for the facts to come out. I don't say that its racisct in nature, or that police are out of control simply cause the man that was shot was black... You were quick to judge the officers in the shooting of Alton Sterling and when it was found he had a gun, you had nothing else to say about it....

    The Minn. shooting was labeled as racist again... they said it was another white officer that killed another black man, when it ended up being a Hispanic officer doing the shooting..... Do you see why I'm against this whole damn thing? It's a dangerous slippery slope type of culture that is being created for the black community, and I feel really sorry for the new generation of black kids coming in.

    I'll tell you this... Most of my arrests... have been black males. Most of my contacts? Black males. Most uses of force? On black males. Am I racist? Because based on your logic, and your stat seeking, this is what I am.

    If it's as bad as you say it is, join the police force and fix it. Simply posting stats and posting videos don't help at all. Come see what its like to fight a man 5X bigger than you, see what it feels like to be on your toes for your entire 10 hour shift, come see what its like to face these set of circumstances that these officers have to face while be camcorded by some idiots on the street corner. So many people, who don't even know how to do our job, or ever been on a ride along have so much to say, its baffling.
     
  6. davriver209

    davriver209 - Rookie -

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    Body Cameras are slowly being implemented to all Departments. Its not that Police Depts dont want em. They're just insanely expensive. You gotta pay for the actual device, you gotta pay for the software that comes along with it, you gotta have a very modern up to date server to handle the hundreds of thousands contacts that are going to happen in a year.... The Dept. will have to pull that officer off the street at least one hour earlier to update and maintain all these videos in a dept that already is underfunded and under manned. Then they gotta pay for the employees that will be maintaining everything related to said body camera software/hardware. Do you see the problem here?

    Luckily our dept was able to get these cameras, but our system for uploading videos is crap, it literally takes 1-2 hours to upload about 15-20 contacts. Then an extra 30 mins to label that videos and tag them with any necessary information. Even with my bodycam, I've been sued numerous times about excessive use of force, and being racially bias... My body cam, captures very little as I work graveyard... and the sound isn't always top quality because of the rubbing and chaffing against my Uniform and vest.

    All my uses of force videos are utterly useless because every fight that I been in, the suspect would hit the camera off my person, or the camera just fell off during the scuffle. There are still many "natural" issues with the bodycam system, and why it's not going to be the answer to this very serious problem we have brewing in our communities.
     
  7. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Besides money, these are all things we can work on/with to improve. Functionality can be improved with innovation and research.

    The money issue is real and one that all departments/cities/states would have to struggle with, but the cost is is something we'd have to all swallow in order to come to a reasonable conclusion.

    I know the solution is imperfect right now, but it's the best way to start in my opinion.
     
  8. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    A few stats in a vacuum can be manipulated. You can't manipulate every stat on killings, arrests, court representation, ail sentencing, pretty much everything that shows a clear racist trend.

    That conclusion doesn't follow, but more importantly, do you know who you're quoting there with that very official looking "study"? The New Century Foundation is a white supremacy outfit.

    From the Wiki:

    "New Century Foundation

    The New Century Foundation, founded November 1990 and based in Oakton, Virginia, is a "self-styled think tank that publishes a monthly journal and a Web site called American Renaissance. Also hosts biannual conferences. The Foundation promotes pseudoscientific and questionably researched and argued studies to validate the superiority of whites."[1]

    The Foundation is headed by Samuel Jared Taylor, "author of Paved With Good Intentions: The Failure of Race Relations in Contemporary America, a 1991 book that documented fundamental problems with U.S. policies on civil rights, crime and welfare. ... But Mr. Taylor was criticized as an advocate of 'the new white racism' by conservative author Dinesh D'Souza, whose 1995 book The End of Racism reported many of the same racial problems Mr. Taylor had examined in his earlier book."[2]

    "Presenters at conferences have included Samuel Francis and Gordon Lee Baum of the Council of Conservative Citizens. Attendees have included Don Black, operator of the white supremacist Web site Stormfront, and National Alliance leader Kevin Alfred Strom. Taylor has been a board member of the Council of Conservative Citizens, and is on the advisory board and has contributed to the racist journal Occidental Quarterly."[3]"

    and

    "This is an organization and publication written by a man (using the term loosely) named Jared Taylor. Jared Taylor, who heads the New Century Foundation and edits its American Renaissance magazine, presents himself as a cosmopolitan, open-minded thinker not afraid to take on the taboos of his time without stooping to racial epithets and the like. But, in fact, he is a man who promotes the idea of America as "a self-consciously European, majority-white nation". In 2002, Taylor published an article by race scientist Richard Lynn ( Lynn has ties to the Pioneer Fund a group that had contacts with many of the Nazi scientists in the 30s whose work provided the conceptual template for Hitler's aspiration toward 'racial hygiene' in Germany) The article that Taylor published titled "Race and the Psychopathic Personality" argued that blacks "are more psychopathic than whites" and suffer from a "personality disorder"."

    Somehow all the encounters with black people, the officer is in danger, but in the encounters with whites they aren't?

    No, you just don't seem to think anything is racist. You talk about racism like it's one guy somewhere in Mississippi somewhere that's racist. A myth that doesn't really affect anyone. I'm not, and have not said every encounter and shooting is racist, but I also know racism not only exists, it's alive and doing quite well right now.

    Did I retract my judgement? He had a gun? Yeah, and he had two officers sitting on him with the gun in his pocket, apparently so deep the officer had to dig to get to it.

    Have I said this is all about white police officers killing black? No, I've been pretty consistent in saying it's a police officer problem, regardless of the race of the officer.

    No, you also work in a major metropolitan city, which is where black criminals would be. The problem I have with what you're presenting is that it seems you think most police departments, crime rates, and officers are basically the same across the nation, and they aren't. As the old joke goes, you have like 5 major cities with big black populations. Other than that, the country is full of poor white folks doing most of the crime.

    Actually I am.

    I've been training for the past month, and I take the C.H.I.P in August..... Wish me luck
     
  9. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    :Kobefistbump:
    :Beertoast2:
     
  10. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    And the latest thing. At least this guy survived, but what the hell?

     
  11. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't get it. Glad he lived. Actually surprised they didn't shoot the Autistic kid since he had the toy in his hands. The cops response is just "WTF?!?!?!"
     
  12. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I'm hoping his gun accidentally discharged
     
  13. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

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    Like this one? She looks like Barney Fife from the Andy Griffith show.
     
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  14. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Just stupid. I've talked about it before, but a friend that's a cop got shot accidentally by his partner. Eight years on the force, on the SWAT team, he's never once shot anybody, but the one time he gets shot, it's by his partner being careless.
     
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  15. Kingsama

    Kingsama - Rookie -

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    What is going on around here? I suppose after the shock of watching that the question comes to mind about how that is going to be spun. Let me guess, the suspect had a speeding ticket 2 years ago... "see he is a dangerous criminal that got what he had coming"
     
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  16. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    Come on man, WTF is going on right now?

     
  17. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    I'm from Europe and i myself have seen some crazy s*** but what "you got" there, is getting beyond ridiculous. Like seriously WTF? Looks like more than a few police officers should get their heads checked...
     
  18. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not psychologist or anything, but I'd have to assume this is fear coupled with poorly trained officers? I don't know. Awful though. Whoever shot that man needs to be fired for negligence and held responsible for the damages to that man. Awful.
     
  19. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I think a lot of it is a combination of poor mental and psychological support. Being a cop is a super hard job, and people don't think about mental health enough in stressful jobs. Cops try to white knuckle it, and I don't think anyone can do the job they do without some PTSD eventually.
     
  20. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Absolutely I agree. Being a cop is one of the most stressful jobs in the world and they don't get enough credit for it, especially these days. That doesn't excuse things like ^^ that but it puts in a better context at least. Obviously you have to be punished for what happened, but I hope the cop is at least human enough to apologize and cover his/her mistake. It's also time to find another job in a line of work that's not so stressful.
     
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