The Official X's and O's thread

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. lakersyunowin

    lakersyunowin - Lakers 6th Man -

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    That depends, is he allowed to vote for himself?
     
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  2. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    Why do we have this thread? It's Byron.
     
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  3. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    Man, if Scott wasn't a former Laker and the 2 Mike's contracts weren't terminated, dude would be gone by now.
     
  4. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps, but we can't change what happened. He'll get this season to see if he can right the ship. If he gets anywhere in the ballpark of 35 wins he's keeping his job at least for one more year.
     
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  5. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    ... don't make me root against us ;)
     
  6. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    My feeling is it all depends on Free Agency. If we can somehow manage to get a big fish like Durant - all bets are off. We will go the direction he wants to go as far as coaching. At that point I think we maybe go after Ollie. But if we don't get a big FA Scott may stick around. We'll see.
     
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  7. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    I can also see us making a run at Ollie. Maybe even Luke to be honest.

    Byron is a placeholder. Hopefully he doesn't run everyone into the ground in the meantime.
     
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  8. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    We'll see how Byron does this season. It's kind of make or break time for him.
     
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  9. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    Definitely. He needs to show a lot.
     
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  10. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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  11. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

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    ^That comment section is a battlefield filled with idiots.
     
  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    From Fiendish on LG provided the breakdown

    With my newly acquired GIF creating abilities, I wanted to highlight some of the things I noticed in the past few Lakers preseason games from an X's and O's standpoint. Hopefully, it doesn't slow down the page:

    Nice defense on the pistol action


    [​IMG]

    Pistol is a set the Lakers went to a couple times this preseason in semi-transition (including their first play of the Blazers game), which is encouraging. The more early offense action that they have, the less they need to rely on their stagnant half court offense.

    The Warriors go into Pistol a lot, and here, Huertas and Lou are effective in utilizing a switch to defend it. They are pretty much interchangeable defensively so they switch on the handoff between Curry and Klay. This enables Huertas enough time to ice the pick from Speights, something that Lou would not have been able to do had they stayed on their assignments. This action relies more on pace rather than spacing to be effective, and forcing Klay baseline contributes to his turnover. One of the few Lakers defensive highlights from the last Warriors game.


    The difference between the Warriors and Lakers in prioritizing transition defense

    The Lakers finished in their worst three in opponent fast break points allowed per possession last season. Judging from their tendency to crash the boards with guards, it doesn't look like getting back on D rather than hitting the glass is a huge focus this year either.

    Warriors offensive possession into transition defense:

    [​IMG]
    On the first backdoor layup attempt, you can see two Warriors drifting back as the pass and subsequent block occur. On the second driving attempt, you see three Warriors pretty much back out of the screen, making their move before their driving player even goes into his shooting motion.

    Contrast that with this Lakers offensive possession:
    [​IMG]
    Here are the Lakers on a possession that they scored on. The Warriors ice the PnR, so Lou goes away from the screen and drives baseline. Watch Huertas as Lou kicks the ball to Kelly. He's looking to make a cut more than crash the glass, but as the shot goes up, he goes for it anyway.

    Coaches have specific rules about getting back depending on what happens on the court. In this case, only one Laker (Young) is in any sort of position to head back on D, and even he doesn't start until the ball is almost in the rim. I liked the play by Lou, but had it been a miss then it's basically a Warriors jailbreak to the other side.

    Kobe pinch PnR

    Not too sure if there is an established name for this play, whether it's a variation of 'elbow get', or if it's a triangle option that I'm not aware of. Whatever it is, it's pretty effective.
    [​IMG]
    Kobe catches it in the standard pinch post from the triangle offense. After Clarkson cuts around, instead of pitching it for Clarkson for the 2-3 PnR, Kobe turns middle where Hibbert cuts across the FT line to set a screen. Kobe's man is devoured by the screen, so Hibbert's man tries to help on the FT line jumper, leaving Hibbert open on the roll.

    On the weak side, Randle sets a downscreen, occupying his defender, who can't rotate into the paint in time to stop the dunk. With few guys who are reliable 3 point shooters in the starting lineup, this is a pretty good way to get Kobe an elbow touch while preserving good spacing.

    The Jazz didn't have time to figure it out, as on the next possession, they went back to it and scored again.
     
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  13. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Fiendishoc from LG:

    Each time an opposing player lights us up is an opportunity to do a defensive accountability exercise. This time, Ricky Rubio:



    Play 1: Wolves starting Prince, meaning that Wiggins is a very big SG, who proceeds to post up Clarkson. They double, and then DEAR LORD, is that TWO Lakers running out at KG at three feet beyond the three point line??? This leaves Rubio wide open for the corner three. I'll put this one on Kobe.

    Play 2: After the missed drive by Randle, Rubio pushes and draw FTs. Russell had to come all the way across the court to pick him up, but he should have been heading back on D earlier, before or during Randle's shot. It's hard to say whether he wasn't following the rules, or that there are no rules to begin with.

    Play 3: Basically the same problem as Play 2. Russell should have been back earlier. But given his head start Randle should have also been there to help. The team needs to learn that their responsibility in transition is not just to their own matchup.

    Play 4 (1:01):
    Lou goes under the screen on Rubio, which makes sense given his career numbers and Rubio hits a three over his contest. Not much you can do about that.

    Play 5:
    Rubio gets a screen going middle while Lou follows him over. Randle cuts off penetration leaving the pop three open. I can't fault him too much over it- protecting the paint is the priority. But the Wolves' spacing was so bad that he probably could have let Rubio drive straight into both Clarkson and Hibbert and saved a basket.

    Play 6:
    Huertas tries to go under a screen while Kelly does what's known as a long armed show, to prevent Rubio from turning the corner. Rubio flips it on both of them and beats them so bad that Kobe doesn't have time to help the helper (Bass), giving Towns an open dunk. I'll put it on Huertas- too slow in recovering.

    Play 7:
    Russell gets caught on a pindown screen, Kelly steps up to contest, but Martin hits it anyway. There should have been enough warning for Russell to position himself better for the chase, but he didn't for some reason. Kelly also planted himself too far back for the help effectively on either the ballhandler or the screener.

    Play 8 (1:50):
    Another ball screen for Rubio, and I'm going to put this one on Randle. If the game plan is to go under on Rubio, then he needs to Show and actually get in Rubio's way, while allowing Huertas space to get under. Instead, he floats neither here or there and gets in the way of his own man, leaving Rubio with the open jumper.

    Play 9:
    Russell does OK in staying attached to Rubio on both screens. Hibbert is in zone up, dropped back to protect against penetration, and Garnett pops out for the long 2. You can live with that.

    Play 10:
    Rubio gets the ball to Muhammad on what looks like the tail end of a Hawk play, and he hits the tough layup over Randle. Good contest, better finish.

    Play 11:
    Hibbert is switched onto Rubio for some reason. When Russell tries to switch back (rather than be faced with guarding Garnett in the post), Rubio finds KG for the layup. Randle should have been there to help earlier, but he was too concerned with staying attached to Towns.

    Play 12 (2:21):
    Russell does a good job going under the screen for Rubio and then icing the rescreen, but Randle switches matchups with Hibbert for some reason, and Towns hits the stepback J over Hibbert. Not sure about the reasoning on that.

    Play 13:
    The screen is toward the sideline, so Russell goes over without needing to Ice, Hibbert drops back to contest Rubio, but Randle is late in tagging Hibbert's man. Wolves get a dunk despite the shaky pass.

    Play 14:
    After icing the PnR, Russell leaves his feet on a fake pass, and Rubio draws the And-1 on him. Russell's fault.

    Play 15:
    Rubio beats Russell going left. Hibbert realizes too late, but it's mostly Russell's fault. Rubio's left handed drives should be in the scouting report.

    Play 16 (3:01):
    In transition, Nick thinks about drawing the charge, but he's too slow and gives up the layup

    Play 17:
    While Lou's three point try is in the air, all Lakers decide to stand there and watch instead of heading back for transition D. The Wolves don't get a numbers advantage, but Huertas is caught thinking about going under a screen that's too far back. Open J for Rubio. I'm putting this one on Byron and Huertas.

    Play 18:
    Clarkson gets beat badly by Rubio driving left. Clearly didn't read the scouting report either. Kelly Clarkson looked confused on that screen coverage as well.

    Play 19:
    Kelly doesn't get up enough on the hedge and Clarkson is slow going under, and Rubio gets an open J. Another Kelly Clarkson breakdown.

    Play 20 (3:43):
    Hibbert lets Lou know the screen is coming. Lou feels for it but his first contact is Towns tagging his butt. Lou gets stuck, giving up an open J. Not sure if this is really a breakdown or not. And Rubio isn't usually this good from outside.

    Play 21:
    Don't know if Clarkson and Randle switched purposely, or if they did it because Clarkson got caught on the screen. At any rate, the Wolves big pops out and hits a 3 in Clarkson face. Not much you can do there.


    Whew, that was painful. I sort of didn't want to keep going halfway through. A lot of individual mistakes in here, which is to be expected with young players. Looks to be a long season defensively.
     
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  14. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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  15. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Perfect, man. Thanks for contributing. I PMed you some advanced stats as well. You'll enjoy them.
     
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  16. Lakers2015

    Lakers2015 - Lakers Starter -

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    Just seemed like there was zero rhythm, zero flow, and no point to what we did offensively. Looked just like last season where Young, Johnson, or Ellington would dribble, drible, dribble and try and penetrate or chuck up a 25 footer. Screening was a little better, but I wanna see some more motion action and more overall continuity going forward.

    Defensively going forward I think Randle is gonna have to be the guy that shows on those high screen and rolls because Hibbert is just too slow and it takes him away from the basket which is where we know he's at his best on the defensive end. Clarkson has that athleticism to be a nightmare defensively, but I'm not seeing the instincts and he looked really lazy on that end.

    Spacing was poor too. That was a concern for me going in. I'd like to see Russell run high pick and rolls with Randle or Hibbert, but you can't do it if the floor isn't spaced. The ball movement has to be crisp. Sometimes they would move it, but not before holding the ball for like five seconds.

    Like to see Randle at the high post and look for a lob to Hibbert and if it's not there get Clarkson on a curl. I don't wanna see Kobe camped out at the three point line. Put him on the wing so he doesn't have to take a thousand dribbles to get in his attack.
     
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  17. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

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    ^^^^ Opponents know Hibbert is going to drop on these high PNR because he's too slow to stay with players on the perimeter so they gonna screen with the big Hibbert is defending

    The wide open midrange J is going to be there for opponents all season
     
  18. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    Yeah I saw them this morning. Good stuff as usual man. Keep it coming!
     
  19. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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    I heard the Lakers had two amazing video sessions and have most likely corrected all of their defensive deficiencies from last game. There might be more, and Byron might have to go over it a few times. But, if there is anywhere Byron shines, it's in the video sessions outside of game action.
     
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  20. raviator

    raviator - Rookie -

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    I think right now if we're trying to win,(ha) we're gonna have to insert some veterans in the starting lineup. Randle and Russell obviously need time to develop and IMHO they need to do that from the bench at this point.
     

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