Let me preface this by saying I did not break this down. This was posted by fiendisoc from LG. I messaged him a couple of days ago and asked if I could have permission to use his stuff on this site because I believe he does a fantastic job of breaking stuff down. From here on out it's his stuff... In an earlier discussion, I mentioned my problem with the Princeton offense: While the real Princeton is better than the *version of it* we ran last season, its pure form is also outdated for today's league. For the high post sets, the only way you're going to get the space you need to cut into the lane is if your center or 'hub' can handle the ball, pass, and shoot 3's or very high % 2 pt jumper's, and all other players are also 3 point threats. Otherwise the defense is just going to compact in and your team is going to be shooting outside most of the time. Back-cuts, which is a staple of the system, are few and far between in the NBA. Because most of the time, they aren't going to bother to aggressively deny the wing when they can just close out, and if they do deny, it's with someone athletic and smart enough not to get beat backdoor. And without modification, the spacing which works in college, places players inside the 3 point line in the NBA, and you also don't get anything in the corners. So you don't get the shots that an offense should ideally try to get. You'll find that a lot of the stuff in the offense, like the two guard front, was put in ONLY to bail out guards who had trouble dealing with ball pressure, to the detriment of spacing. Coaches have already taken the good parts from the Princeton and Triangle, the read and react, the screening and motion, and adapted it to get shots on the efficient parts of the floor. In contrast, what we did with our Princeton based sets last year was do the opposite, taking the spacing and cuts, but taking the read and react & continuity part out of it. After watching these few games, my negative view on it still stands. If you can't penetrate the defense with anything other than a back-cut, then you likely aren't going to get anything at all other than wasting time off the clock. Here are some plays from the first quarter against the Knicks. Play 1 They run some motion, but the play call is really just for a Randle isolation. You see it's already eight seconds off the clock before Clarkson is in position to receive a wing pass. Russell makes a halfhearted UCLA cut and doesn't even look for the ball on his move to the basket, because everyone knows its going to Randle. Play 2 The ensuing inbounds is where the real problem comes in. 14 seconds on the clock and you're trying to run Princeton? You have your guard to guard pass in the two guard front, from Russell to Clarkson. Clarkson throws to Randle who throws it back to Black at the top of the key. Then a chin cut from Russell, which flows into a Princeton entry set, and Clarkson also cuts in, and they set a double pindown for the two. Clarkson comes off the pindown to get the handoff from Black, and ends up... in the exact same place he had the ball before! So we spent another ten seconds to get Clarkson the ball twice in the same place with bad spacing. With time running down Clarkson isos from 26 feet and launches a contested three that's not even close. At no point in all that motion did we ever threaten to penetrate the defense at all, other than maybe a post up opportunity for Russell which they didn't look for. Those are the first 2 plays he has broken down. I'll post 2 more he posted from that game later on tonight. You'll get the general idea. Although, most of you probably have if you seen the Summer League games.
Great post. I also edited your post to embed the streamable videos. You can use the media tag for that.
Nice post! It's more or less the technical breakdown of what we all see which is great news to me. I don't know the terms used necessarily for each motion, but it tells me we're a pretty knowledgeable group! We all saw the same thing: motion without purpose. There's no reason to run the Princeton with these kids. The ONLY thing they use the Princeton for honestly is that isolation for Julius which I'm actually fine with. When you have a player that is a tremendous mismatch, use him. The Triangle did the same basic thing. Put your best player in an isolation in their best spot. Awesome! After that though everyone goes and stands in a crowd on the other side of the floor. How about you put D'Angelo in the corner and run him off screens to get open at the three point line at the top of the key? How about guys cut off of Julius's post up? It doesn't have to be straight isolation. He also brought up a great point with the Princeton needing big men who can knock down a mid-range jumper. In that respect, it'll look slightly better with Hibbert on the floor, but DAMN it looks ugly with Black, Randle, and Nance Jr. who are either incapable or unwilling to take that jumper. The defender just sags in and any cuts to the rim are immediately packed with 2-3 players. Terrible coaching so far by the Lakers. Whose ever fault this is needs to immediately chuck this out the window and let the kids play.
Summer league should be about getting the young guys up to NBA speed. Why spend the entire time having them learn a complicated offense when half the team of vets aren't there. Run some basic stuff, let them play (insert picture of the guy on Godzilla).
Great post and thanks to fiendisoc. Yes, this clearly shows the problem. Second video is really funny, because they wasted 10+ seconds to end up with JC in almost the same place. This does not work for our young guys at all. Let Russ create, set screens for him so he can shoot the 3. Iso Randle where he feels comfortable and he can pass out of the post too. Allow Clark to penetrate and score or pass to the (hopefully) open shooter in the corner. What is wrong with those simple, yet effective plays that everyone is running these days?
Great topic and post. Really, we simply arent putting our guys in the most advantageous positions. If smart fans can see this, why can't our incompetent coach see it?
The official Mark Madsen doesn't know what the f*** he's doing thread. Half court shot was the best he could draw up. EL OH EL. Please never get a head coaching job and if you do please go to the Cavs or Clippers.
At least the offense looked really solid yesterday for the most part. I believe though that Byron was pretty hands on yesterday compared to the last few games. Cements in my mind one thing: Madsen should NEVER be a head coach at any level... yikes. Good sign that the offense actually improved though with Byron's touch. As weird as that is to say. And a good move to switch most screens with our athletic/undersized big men. Unfortunately that made Jeremy Tyler into an All-Star, but oh well.
Yeah, it looked better. If I get that during the season, I'll be happy. Horns, pick in roll, and I'm good. I do think that will give the guys more freedom and give us the best chance to win games at the beginning of the season.
