President Trump

Remember Lakeshow that a lot of projected costs are factored with the inflated medical, insurance, and pharmaceutical costs already included.
So if they say it's 30 trillion maybe in reality it's more like 10 trillion.
I'm in my fifties and the job that Penny on the Big Bang Theory had making six figures didn't even exist when I was a kid.
Jacking up the prices on Epi pens and insulin?
Complete bullsh*t
We are 37th in life expectancy. (I said it again for emphasis)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

College also has gone up astronomically since I was kid.

And Trump gives the rich a 1.5 trillion corporate and estate tax break?

Bwahahahahaha

Give me a break.

 

I don't know the actual numbers, but some would phrase "tax break" as restoring to more normal levels.

There is a very curious definition of "fair share" that exists in our country. So somehow if one party with incredibly poor financial policies sets tax levels at one level, that is now "normal" and accepted as the proper level? It may have been actually way out of whack.

Overall, whether you like Trump or hate him, and I personally think he's a douche person, he has done a lot of solid things for the country that seem to be indisputable. The results are pretty amazing, and it's too bad it's wrapped in such a crappy package. The proven agenda of mass media has been shameful.

The fact that it has happened in our country, and people fall for the BS is deeply disturbing. Our country is not on a great trajectory, and there doesn't seem to be leadership in the pipeline that will make things better either. At this point, I'd rather have 4 more years of solid results with Trump than some of the Jokers that will be presented as options.

 

Eisenhower taxed the superwealthy up to 90%.
Because the wealthy control tv and print, they've convinced us it's anti American to tax the ultra wealthy.
There is nothing normal about our tax levels and you should be unhappy unless you are a multimillionaire

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...-tax-rates-were-90-percent-under-eisenhower-/

 

I won't pretend to be an expert in economics, but I appreciate you bringing that up so I looked it up.

I guess the point is that it doesn't appear any tax breaks or normalization of tax rates haven't affected the country adversely. I think the numbers bear that out right?

I don't think anyone can look at current tax policies and lay any US financial woes at the feet of the income tax rates. If I'm wrong, I definitely appreciate reading another perspective. I've personally just taken the approach as a business owner that no matter who is in charge, no matter the change of financial policies, my job is to find a way to succeed in spite of the idiots in charge. And make no mistake, most of our lifetime politicians are financial idiots that have never owned and run a business successfully and can't balance a checkbook.

 

It's the income inequality aspect that's disturbing.
Like how Bezos has avoided paying taxes most of his career.
So what if you pay a billion when you should be paying ten or twenty.
It allows them to say... oh I pay x amount and your first thought is wow... until you compare it to how much they make and then it should be more.
He displaced thousands of small businesses that paid 30% and he has so much power and clout he spins it anyway he wants.
The tech companies have gamed the economy and the government, and by the time the law figures it out they've moved on to their next scam.

 

Rich people pay great accountants to use the rules in place to shelter them from unnecessary taxes. As loopholes are found, they are closed.

The same things that make him successful also lead him to unnecessarily giving money to a government that is so inefficient with it. I don't have an issue with that.

ALLLLL of our tax rules are in place for a reason. I did energy efficient lighting as a contractor for many years, and the EPACT policy gave building owners up to $1.80 per square foot tax break for updating their facilities to energy efficient items. 33% HVAC, 33% building envelope, and 33% lighting.

And the energy efficient items pay for themselves. They have their own ROI, so in some cases, the incentive and local utility rebates made facility upgrades payoff in less than a year. That's not financially rational, except that tax policies drive macro behavior we want to see as a country. If we want to build fewer power plants, we need to reduce our peak demand. We know from experience as a nation, you target big facilities first down to the smaller companies.

Capital Gains fluctuates with an agenda
Inflation is adjusted with an agenda
Interest rates are adjusted with an agenda

There is a much bigger picture on all of these things. Bezos, if he's running a clean business, and he'd be foolish not to be, he's using the current US Tax agenda to be successful. If they have tax breaks, it's for a reason, and they are making him participate in behaviors that benefit the nation more than the tax revenue they are not receiving from him.

The problem is people who don't understand that concept think they should get the money instead of the benefit of the bigger picture the government is after. They want both because they don't know the other side exists. It's not as tangible as money, so people don't understand what's behind it. It makes successful business owners easy targets, but it seems foolish to me. You don't hear government officials who understand how the game works trying to throw Bezos under the bus. He's using the rules THEY created and following them. If you don't like the results, change the rules of the game, and his accountant will see how the nation wants to drive his behavior to benefit them most. He'll adjust, and he'll participate either in the form of direct taxes, or he'll participate in the bigger picture they want to drive as a nation.

If the nation sees long term benefits of having 30% of the nation on solar panels for power, you will see greater incentives trickle down. By all accounts, Amazon seems to be running an excellent business and offers great services. Nobody is escaping paying taxes besides participating in the behavior the current government officials want to drive. They aren't taking a chance going to jail over taxes.

 

You can't change the rules of the game without a viral revolution because data mining has become so efficient and predictable that you can tailor almost anything with money.

 

I have no idea what that means.

 

Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon all mine your information, your purchases, your preferences.
If they want a political outcome, they know in advance what needs to be done to effect that change.
It will only get worse with time.
Hillary and 538 thought they had it gamed their way, but they misjudged how many people would lie to pollsters about voting for Trump.
There were many who were ashamed to admit they were voting for Trump, but still were.
As technology gets more sophisticated, these errors will become less and less.

 

My dad worked as an accountant and I can tell you for a fact that people during that time earning that kind of money were definitely NOT paying those rates. It's absurd you would bring it up because it shows a lack of research on your part. No one paid those rates unless they were willing to. Tax rates don't determine your tax due - the tax code does. Back then, there were deductions for the most ludicrous items. People were compensated through other means other than what was considered to be income during that time. We were also still relatively fresh off WWII and the debt and restructuring of our country along with many others in Europe had to be refinanced so it was seen as a temporary rather than permanent tax "increase." If you think about it, why would anyone rich do the same work if they were only allowed to keep 10% of anything they earned up to the 91% threshold? Rich people got rich for a reason. They aren't going to willingly pay your 91% tax rate because some politician said so. You need to look at tax revenue as a % of GDP and dating back 70+ years, our tax revenue as a % of GDP has always been hovering 16-20%.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S
Stop looking at marginal tax rates and look at effective tax rates. Lastly, one thing you've failed to mention because you're just looking for soundbites is the fact that the 91% marginal tax rate wasn't the only tax bracket that saw an increase... Check this:
https://www.tax-brackets.org/federaltaxtable/1961

EVERY bracket received a tax increase. This meant middle-income families were taxed at higher rates as well - not just high-income earners (who had many more outlets to hide their income that middle-income families weren't able to).

Really, stop listening to sound bites and research it yourself. Just listen to what you are saying: You truly thought rich people were willing to pay 91% of earned money so they can take home 9%.

 

He's trying to sound smarter than he really is... that's what it means.

 

Bezos has avoided paying taxes most of his career.. get ready... wait for it... Because he hasn't SOLD his Amazon shares. You don't get taxed unless you experience a "realized" gain. The vast majority of Bezos assets and worth is in his Amazon shares that he held onto for decades and he has only become the target of headlines because he was smart enough to turn Amazon into a behemoth. Those businesses he displaced is another story. His job is to worry about leading Amazon. His competitors should have figured out a way to improve and advanced as technology blew past them. Every single one of them had the opportunity to become Amazon. Jeff Bezos is a success story. Amazon wasn't an inherited business. He started it in the garage of a rented home that he was living in. Primarily, Amazon was an online bookstore. So you tell me, how exactly did Jeff Bezos go from starting a business in his rented garage to becoming one of the wealthiest individuals of all-time while also scheming the system as you've claimed he has done? I'm not saying he hasn't. Billionaires are wealthy for a reason. The problem is when you think he owes you or anyone something. He doesn't. What he is doing is LEGAL and anyone, including yourself, could have done it.

 

Of course rich people don't pay the taxes they should... which is why the entire accounting system works so they can find the best ways to maneuver around it. Your father made a living off of it... My father made money in engineering making money from military contracts... many feasted off of the system. My point is that people are acting like it is insane to collect money from a system that has consistently consolidated money into fewer hands.
If you enjoy regression into a feudal economy... that is your right... I prefer a more egalitarian approach.

The bottom line is income inequality. If you want to say yay capitalism... good for you... I prefer the money spread more evenly and don't believe that money trickles down. If you want to believe the voodoo economics theory that even Bush Sr. didn't buy, well we don't have much to discuss.

Bezos avoided paying sales tax for years... maybe even a decade while driving thousands of mom and pops out of business.
He continues like the Walton family to use economies of scale against any small fry and the economy will continue to consolidate.
More jobs will continue to automate and be converted into robots.

But sure, let's celebrate the domination of a few tech hubs at the expense of small business.

Cheers! If we all work hard and work smarter... we can each own our own Amazon!

 

A lot of Sentient Meat's comments are based on illogical and emotional-based thinking rather than factual.
1) Every country has been to war. America's dominance has been built on war. Other countries would have traded their entire history to become America. We have been to some crappy wars that shouldn't have been occurred but as with any war, you win some and you lose some.
2) A large reason why we keep pumping money into our military is that the bulk of the cost is to prevent escalation of conflict. We have thousands of military bases around the world for a reason: Because we need to know every and anything that happens before something breaks out. Look at this chart instead...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...hare-of-gdp-in-2018-infographic/#363ed1cf7508
Yes, we're still paying more than most countries but you need to look at the military as a cost of business. The world is infinitely far safer when America is the superpower. Could you imagine if China or Russia had the superpower military? Exactly... It's easy to sit in your computer watching Lakers games when you're not in direct confrontation of reality. This doesn't mean the military industry isn't corrupt but I dare you to find ANY industry that ISN'T in some shape or form.
3) We donate money to Israel because they are one of our most loyal partners in a region where we strongly need their expertise, intel, etc.,... Please do your research.
4) You receiving media by the Washington Post is your own cause. Just because the Washington Post exists doesn't mean that is what you should read. Cross-check various sources and you won't have an issue. The problem is, people are lazy and don't bother. Fake news works because people give in to what they want to read rather than what is the truth. No one would push fake news if it didn't work.
5) I wanted to go on further but I don't really see a point. Nearly 45% of Americans do not pay federal income taxes. Countries with "free" health coverage tax their citizens at much higher rates to fund their programs which in turn leads to a higher cost of living. You also ignore the obvious: California alone is a much bigger population than theses Scandanavian countries that are highly touted for their free healthcare. Since these Scandanavian countries are mostly homogenous, their culture encompasses beliefs and traditions that are far easier to maintain than one in which America is the MOST diverse country in the world BY FAR, meaning, more problems as a result of it. As an example, throw in 300,000 Chinese, 100,000 Indians, 200,000 Hispanics, 400,000 blacks, 150,000 Japanese, etc., people into Norway. Then tell me these countries won't have a problem! Have you been to Sweden? I have! All white people! Nothing wrong with that but races gravitate towards their own and have always throughout history. I can provide an even lengthier description of why healthcare is so expensive but it'll be pages long and I don't feel like you yourself have done enough research to warrant a response that would be in-depth. Please do your research, man! Norway is great at what they do but until you can find a country that provides free healthcare to 300,000,000 of their people while also 45% of workers not paying federal income taxes, your comparisons are simply inadequate.

 

1) Should is arbitrary. You don't get to decide how much someone should pay just because you're not as fortunate as them.
2) My father didn't make a living off of it. He simply did a job. And your job is to research your statements before making them because you are part of the fake news spreader with that 91% tax rate that a microscopic amount of people paid.
3) I don't have a problem with you saying there is inequality. That's a fact. But your arguments as to why there is inequality is lacking. I'm not sure what Bush Sr. has to do with this but it isn't voodoo economics. Trickle down economics works BASED on the Laffer curve. The problem is people don't know what that means and automatically whine about how the tax rates are too low. It should be higher but the bigger issue is finding a way to tax CAPITAL GAINS since that is where the bulk of the money is going to. Rich people are making money off starting companies and investing their money into other companies. You don't get taxed at normal tax rates for those gains. I would totally be up for a 30% capital gains tax rate but we also need to look at how that can affect investment growth and opportunities. It's not a simple addition and subtraction equation. If the economy tanks, we can't rely on capital gains to save us. And yes, capitalism has done very well for us. The problem is CRONY capitalism. Also, the U.S. is a mixed economy. We spend most of our tax revenue on social programs so let's stop acting as if it's a free-for-all out there.
4) Bezos didn't avoid paying sales tax. He simply never had to pay them. But you are proving my point on how ignorant you could be! Amazon doesn't charge sales tax... the state does! Amazon simply collects it. When sales taxes are issued towards Amazon, people shopping their ultimately pay for it - not Amazon! People shop at Amazon because let's face it, it's convenient and easy. Other people could have done the same but didn't! Blockbuster thought people wanted to keep physical DVD's and scoffed at the idea of a subscription-based media platform that Netflix soon dominated. Netflix fault or Blockbuster's incompetence? You tell me!
5) Automation isn't a bad thing. It's a great thing. If robots can do what humans can more efficiently, it means humans can spend more time doing other things and costs will be cheaper due to automation > human labor. The issue is technology moved way too quick and now humans are caught in a bubble where they have to adapt in a short period of time or be displaced. It's all about advancement and sadly, some people will fall short. It's just the reality.

 

Can't argue that it's better for America to run the world than Russia or China, but you act as though imperialism by one of the three superpowers is the only option for a stable world.
Bombing the third world endlessly tends to make people angry and radicalized, and we act like their anger comes out of nowhere.
If you believe this is the way the world should be run, that is your right but I think we should aim higher than shrugging our shoulders and going yay for social darwinism.
Obama dropped 26,171 bombs during his final year.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy
Trump supports the Saudi regime causing misery and starvation in Yemen
We went apesh*t when one terrorist attack hits us... and act like they are animals.
What if they dropped 26,170 more bombs? In one year? What does that make us?
Oh yeah, we are the benevolent force that makes the world wonderful.
I'm sorry but I don't buy that endless bombing is a solution.
I'd rather put the money into feeding people, educating people, providing healthcare.
You keep believing that the American way is the only way.
But try to remember where you got your ideology in the first place.

 

Funding the military is like paying for insurance and then using it when your house burns down. It's a preventive measure. Bombing happens in that region because the area is filled with terrorists. Countries around that region couldn't even stop ISIS... what makes you think that region was in any way capable of stability? It isn't. The issues in that area surfaced even before the U.S. got involved. Iran and Iraq, Saudis vs Iran.. all these countries hate each other and the only thing keeping these countries afloat is the OIL. Without it, it would be a total landfill. Do you really think the United States goes to the Middle East, bombs them, and no one retaliates? These Middle East countries KNOW that the U.S. is coming to bomb that region because they allow them to. The United States received permission from Turkey to enter into their area so they could seize Al-Baghdadi. Now you're telling me the U.S. is just bombing whatever they want without an authorization? Give me a break. If that were the case, Canada, UK, and other Western countries would surely speak out against the U.S. but why haven't they? Because they know that the Middle East is a total warzone. I mean, look at how women are treated in that region. That entire area is simply outdated while their neighbors are successfully modern. I've never heard of any individual saying they want to visit the Middle East. It's not because the U.S. keeps bombing them. It's because the Middle East is simply not appealing to anyone.

America isn't the only way. But we are the best option by far. The reason you're allowed to type all the things you are typing without any ounce of retaliation is because you live in the United States. Try doing that in the Middle East. Try criticizing their religion or leaders in the Middle East. Are you from that region? Surely you would rather live in America than there, yeah? You would rather put money into feeding, educating, and providing healthcare to the people? Great! Now please tell me how you would accomplish that because all I'm reading is you want to vote for Bernie Sanders without listing how it would be paid for. Saying not to fund the military is one way China and Russia starts making their moves towards being the superpower and I'm quite sure no one wants that.

 

One of the reasons we became the world's strongest nation post WWII is because we were blessed by an infusion of German and European expat scientists who were forced out their respective homelands due to intolerance and xenophobia.
If we didn't have the technological edge, outcomes with Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia or Red China would have been significantly less favorable.
Now we are under an administration who displays hostile attitudes to immigration and we've made the United States a less attractive place.
You can say Trump wants only the cream of the crop instead of unskilled immigrants... but guess what?
Most educated people dislike Trump and Brexit's xenophobic policy so what difference does it make if we welcome only the educated if our nation's attitudes no longer attract the educated?
Of course one might say there are still plenty of educated people who want to study in America, however there are many who would no longer want to come, and then maybe the next Einstein or Teller goes to another nation instead.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/205832/race-education-gender-key-factors-trump-job-approval.aspx
(only 31% with a postgraduate degree approve of Trump, his support is highest among those with no college education)

Money should be put into education, not perpetual war... that is where our resources are best spent
Money should be put into health care, not pouring money into imaginary threats made real post facto by our horrendous approach to foreign policy.
The next World War should anyone survive it, will be won by the country who codes the best, more so than trying to improve the next Mother of All Bombs

 

This makes no sense. If they say it’s 30 trillion, those costs are already factored into it and in reality it’s more like 45-50 trillion. Not sure where you got that from. Warren’s plan is 25 trillion and they claim that their’s is the best of all the UHC plans because they were able to cut a lot of costs compared to say Bernie Sanders.

Again, our healthcare issues are the effects of our lifestyles. Logically it would make sense to focus on the cause and not the effect. This becomes difficult because you’d be infringing on citizens rights to do what they want to do. In an ideal world, that’s the way to fix our life expectancy. Japan is number in the world. Why? They don’t smoke, drink, do drugs, eat fattening foods and/or processed foods. Could you get behind the idea I mentioned above of splitting the healthcare services between the government and the private sector. Basically shoe horning everyone into a one size fits all will not work, both logically and monetarily.

What’s actually wrong with corporate/wealthy tax cuts, except the fact that people have been told it’s bad. I’m only assuming as I don’t know, but it sounds like you’ve listened to the mainstream media/Democrats and would rather tax the wealthy. Not quite sure, but I’d also assume you are a fair share advocate. If you are, can you explain to me how you think 1) it would work and 2) how it’s fair. If you are not and I assumed wrong, then just disregard this part of my post.

 

So the wealthy have been paying their fair share for over 100 years? Hmm... who knew?