Official Whine, Moan, Complain Thread 19/20-CLOSED "WE CHAMPS!"

why? we weren't going to with the crew we had. we had basically the same future as the pelicans, minus zion.

how can you be sure the kids and lebron make the playoffs? and why is finishing 8th not different than finishing 1st or 2nd or 4th?

finally, anthony davis is 26 and better than any of the kids will ever be. he led a team to the playoffs at the same age that ingram is leading them to the cellar. i'd say we bought a future, not mortgaged it.

 

@LTLakerFan I’m not saying there is no validity to your outlook, it’s just my opinion that Vogs values something else than what Cook/Trey can provide us at the moment.

The thing about shooting is you need time on the floor to gain rhythm. And while Rondo is no longer a defensive savant he’s head shoulders better than Cook/Trey at playmaking, which is more necessary imho than the 3ball is.

 

Yes. Not debating he values defense more and rightly so. But if you have noticed he has been giving Troy minutes, a few at least, every game lately. Why do you think that is ..... because he is just double and triple checking to see if he has improved on defense? To the loss right now between him and Rondo of perhaps more minutes for Cook.

 

Maybe the blowouts allows Trey some run.

With Av out, Rondo, Caruso and Kcp have seen time at the 1...especially Kcp playing a pseudo starting 1 with Bron actually running point.

Green is a career 26mpg player, so with Kcp doubling up at the 1 & 2, as a result, maybe that allows Daniels to see more run.

But if I’m Cook, I’m looking at Vogs a bit sideways. You’re barely getting anything with Av out. When he comes back, where you getting your minutes?

 

I'm not sure... I'm going purely by the growth arc of Ingram and Hart... even Zo finally had a decent game... and that combined with vets that fit and the fact that we were trending 3rd in the West before LBJ tore his groin. So very likely, but not guaranteed. Just like it's likely we will have a good run in the playoffs, but an injury at Christmas could derail us again.

I can agree AD should be better than any of the kids individually... but I can't be sure he will be better than all of them combined.

If there never was an advantage to trading the superior player then no trades would ever exist. People would say after 70 plus years of the NBA... I won't do it. If we had kept even one of Ingram/Ball/#4, I would have thought it was an okay deal giving up the other assets... but all six was just too much.

I don't expect you to agree... but I don't know how you can say any other path was impossible either. The truth is we may never know.

 

1) Woah, you don't think there is a huge talent and impact difference between AD and Ingram? Take AD out and add Ingram. We would be lucky to have 10 wins! You can find another Brandon Ingram but you won't find another AD easily. Right now, AD is the best rim protector and when AD is the closest defender to a scorer, the scorer is only shooting 38% from the field - the second lowest rate in NBA currently. Defensively, as you've stated, AD is lightyears ahead of Ingram. Offensively, AD is still lightyears ahead. Why? Because AD doesn't NEED the ball to dominate. Ingram does. It's far easier to build a team with AD than it would be with Ingram precisely because AD will dominate regardless of whether he has the ball or not. Ingram can't and likely won't ever be able to do that.

2) 20 points per game? Who cares about 20 points per game? That's not a benchmark worth mentioning considering a scrub like Andrew Wiggins has been able to average that easily. Are we seriously talking about being an All-Star? Ingram would be LUCKY to be an All-Star this season. In fact, he won't be one. AD was an All-Star in his second season at the age of 20. He led the league in PER in his third season. He has been a top 10 NBA defender since his second season of the NBA. What has AD accomplished is laughable because you need to take a look at those terrible teams he was a part of. They were the most injury prone team and had an insane amount of turnover. In 2016-2017, the Pelicans had 26 different players playing for them. How the hell is any team let alone a franchise player expected to win when they have new players coming in every other day?

3) https://bleacherreport.com/articles...s-90-percent-of-why-i-re-signed-with-pelicans

Jrue Holiday basically only resigned with the Pelicans because of AD. How many players are resigning with the Pelicans to play with Brandon Ingram?

So here you bring up assumptions as to what AD would have fetched in the market. Does anyone here truly believe AD wouldn't have gotten whatever he want on any team if they believed that he would re-sign? Dude, stop! The only players that wouldn't have been in a trading block for AD would be: LeBron, Curry, Harden, and Giannis. Everyone else would have been involved in trade talks. It's that simple.

Really, we're 19-3 with AD leading our defense and playing like an MVP and you're sitting here typing that you don't think Davis is significantly better than Ingram. None of us here are bashing or grouping up against you personally. It's just what you're saying makes everyone here believe you are more interested in creating tension than actually being objective.

 

How does your fuzzy mathematical comparison work? Would AD contribute statistically more than Lonzo, Hart, and Ingram combined? No! Because AD will get paid as one player on the roster whereas those three will take up three salary and roster spots. Here's the reality: Lonzo will get paid. Likely $15 million per year just based off potential. Ingram will get paid. Again, likely $30 million per year. Hart? Maybe $8-10 million. I don't know about you but I don't want the Lakers or ANY franchise paying those three losers $55 million per year when AD will be much cheaper and is a guaranteed NBA top five player for the next five years. You're here worried about whether it will work out in the long-term while the rest of us are just ecstatic we have two top five NBA players and are the favorites for the title. Please stop!

 

I think the financial argument is the most reasonable point, except few seem to be emphasizing it, choosing to focus on their play instead.

I agree especially after this season that Ingram might be priced unreasonably, and we all know well how LaVar is especially if Lonzo regains any of his form.

If people used this as the crux of their argument, then I can see that making more sense.

However, I would have tried to lock up Ingram when he wasn't doing so well... and dealt with Lonzo or Hart as their cost control expired.

The point of my argument is that we'd have options. And whether we took Hayes, Garland, Hunter, Culver, or Coby... you can't understate the impact of that piece as well.

Again, I'm enjoying the season... but it wasn't a no brainer in my mind. Going by our teams ability to draft... it was a significant loss compounded by the folly of clearing space for Kawhi without a firm commitment on his part.

 

Hey SentientMeat, are you leftymo from CL?

 

Trading for AD needed to be done to exploit Bron’s twilight.

How much we gave up is a whole other matter tho.

Dude sank his own market...literally had his pops doing this to Ainge...



He forced it to where we were the only legitimate bidder at the table...and we still gave up all that without getting or having the ability to lock dude up on long term commitment asap.

Assets could have been spared and that’s keeping it real...

 

No... don't know who that is.

 

He was one of the favorite members on the old site before moving here. Always backed up his takes with facts; solid poster. But I think he was a doctor, and seemed to focus on the stuff not going right. But my memory isn't what it used to be when I was 13. I think it's a compliment, or he's saying you're too negative. I can't really tell. Maybe both.

Either way, I think you are a welcome addition to the board. He gives everyone crap lol.

 

It's a compliment. Thoughtful and feet on the ground comments are always appreciated when we get cocky. I miss leftymo lol

 

Thanks to you both.

 

No you don't.

 

Yes their window is longer because they would be building over a longer time frame. The key is choosing wisely.
A lot of their future depends on whether Zion's high flying act can work with his bulky body. If it doesn't, they will probably need to pick up a star along the way. If he does live up to his expectations... I think they will have a future contender.

Remember, my contention was never that the kids would be enough... it was that we should have executed the original plan of the two elites added to the best of the young core.

Now many here (and on other message boards) believe that was never going to happen.

I believe once we chose LBJ... it had to be his way at that point... however, had we turned down LBJ... we might have been able to pair PG with any of this year's agents and keep whoever flourished from our core.

We could have had PG/Kawhi/BI/Zo/Hart/Kuz/Mo... who knows who else we might have kept. We could have signed PG and Kemba... PG and Kyrie... anyone who left their original team... would have probably been in play.

Now in defense of the front office... conventional wisdom says you don't turn down the best player in the league when you are a bottom dweller... so I get them taking the proverbial bird in the hand even if it limited some of our options.

But considering LBJ's age... I would have courted PG instead and tried to convince the second agent and keep some kids. That's just my opinion and you can criticize it if you like.

Again, LBJ is defying his age... so we could easily win a title if we can find a solution to our third scorer. Maybe we can even win without it.

But were it not for him beating most aging scenarios and Dwight coming out of nowhere... we could easily be a lower seeded playoff team.

For now, I will just accept the team as it is and hope for the best.

 

I do.

 

Let's not get carried away.