Official Whine, Moan, Complain Thread 19/20-CLOSED "WE CHAMPS!"

ingram n hart

 

there wasnt hoping with ingram, what he did post asb last season with lebron is similar to what hes doing now but now the 3pt shot is more consistent but the goal of a chip is obviously better with ad im not gona dispute that....remember theres winning at all cost n sustanability while winning too, this team isnt sustainable for the long haul unless another max lvl player comes in 21'

 

Trade was essentially BI for AD. Hart and Ball are complimentary players. AD over BI is 100 out of 100.

 

Griff is a BI stan (although it was stupid not to extend him, but still understandable due to how the clot scare would impact him this year)....so I find it hard that he would have allowed an AD deal without BI involved.

Buuuut if we had a choice to spare BI instead of Kuz and we chose the later...stupid move on our part. BI would have been perfect for this team, both defensively and an option to allow Bron to save his legs by handling playmaking duties some.

BI the truf!

 

never disputed that the trade could be done without BI but i dont agree that BI is doing what hes doing in nop because there's no pressure or high usg stuff, he did that stuff here minus the high % from 3s of course

 

Khmer: you got mad at me when I said Ingram was the same guy this year as last, plus higher fg%...but you just said the same thing.

I agree. And I agree with ox.

 

no you said hes the same "losing player" theres a difference, you made it seem as if all of pelicans losing is on him n there was that nuance stats someone on another forum noted his iso n over dribbling has gone done alot compared to his time here so there is some growth to his gm as well besides the 3pt shot

 

Ingram is a losing player. I don't see a winning trait about him. Take a look at Doncic... There's a winning player.

 

theres not alot of doncic out there n not every one has to be doncic like to be a winning player, Ball has advance stats that says hes a winning player why arent pellies winning when he plays?

 

I never brought up advanced stats but I did bring up Doncic to show a distinct difference as to how a player who contributes to winning plays compared to someone who has been in the league for three full seasons and hasn't shown he is capable of leading a team at all. Some people have it, some don't. Ingram shows zero leadership and I don't think his teammates are successful playing with him with his style.

 

kawahi leonard doesn't say much during gms. no emotions n doesnt show leadership skills either, he just goes n plays, not winning player either i guess

 

yeah, no:

https://lakersball.com/threads/bran...thought-he-could-be.1541/page-330#post-327986

that's the post you took issue with, wherein i said he looks like the exact same player we had. i still think so. in february and march, he was basically the guy we're seeing now:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ingrabr01/splits/2019

and yes, both situations came with losing. he has been a net positive (by a slim margin) with NO thus far, though.

and i didn't say anything about the pelicans losing because of him. i said he's putting up numbers, and it isn't in a way that's helping them win. the point is that somebody has to do things on teams without actual stars. kevin martin got to pretend to be a star for years!

so, in sum, ingram looks like the ingram i knew. which is good. and also someone you trade for AD before the other manager gets a chance to sleep on it.

 

i really dont get your logic of "someone has to put up #s" n lose, if you're putting up #s n doing it efficiently how is that NOT helping the team towards winning? you credit bogdonvic #s but sac isnt exactly winning themselves, so basically any player with #s on a losing team is just useless then unless you say otherwise like bog?

 

I'm out on Kuzma growing into that third star role. I don't see enough IQ in him. His work ethic and will to win is there but I don't think he's ever gonna put it all together. And his handles are awful.

 

You're making strawman arguments. Kawhi Leonard leads by example and teammates do well when he is on the team. You're such a Brandon Ingram fanboy.

 

ummm when your bench mark to be a winning player thats a bit much yourself....a transcendent lvl player is a winning player, you think? if that's the bench mark theres not alot of winning players n no need to be name calling...btw Leonard played next to an all time great in sa n went to a tor team that was in ecf already so lets not pretend he just shows up n the team just magically wins

 

it's how it happens and what it means for the way your team plays. i think bogdan could play a similar role on a better team and they'd win. i think ingram can only play one role, and that role isn't one that helps you win with him in it. see the difference? now, time could prove me wrong on that one (or on bogdanovic), but it hasn't yet with ingram and hasn't had a chance to with bogdan.

to put it more clearly: ingram needs to be a secondary or tertiary scorer if your team is going to be successful. but his game looks best when he's a primary option. problem is, his team loses when he's the primary option. i mentioned kevin martin on purpose: he looked super efficient, but those sac and hou teams couldn't do much when he was at his best. when other teams tried to move him into a secondary role, he didn't play as well. he was basically out of the league 2 years after being the centerpiece in the harden trade. some of that was age/injury, some of it was that what he did best wasn't that helpful, no matter how pretty it seemed.

maybe zion comes back and ingram slides nicely into a lower usage role and thrives. i just doubt it is all.

moreoever, none of this changes the fact that he was basically the same player he is now the last time we saw him in action for the lakers AND you would gladly trade that for anthony davis without giving it a second thought.

 

was he not the 2nd/3rd opt here last yr? I mean everyone on the team had to adjust to playing alongside James and with new expectations, were we not top 4 prior to James getting hurt? and then after ASB, his #'s were like they are now in NOP along side james but the losing wasn't because of Ingram being a #1, we were short handed almost the whole 2nd half of the season. I mean to say 1 guy in certain role determines if you're a losing/winning players seems disingenious, its a team sport. It didn't help either with Waltons coaching, i showed you stats already that Ingram ISO and overdribbling on O has signifcantly gone down as oppose to his time here. I dont dispute the trade working out, but the winning/losing argument shouldn't be all that matters in terms of Ingrams gm.

 

Imagine BI with this team’s newly found emphasis on defense.

 

Kawhi can play off-ball and plays elite defense. Before this season, Ingram couldn't shoot the ball from 3 consistently and his playmaking abilities were subpar. They are two visibly different players both by a statistical measure and gameplay. Brandon Ingram isn't a transcendent player. He's one who can put up stats on a team where they aren't expected to accomplish much. Until Brandon Ingram proves he can lead a team, come talk to me... Otherwise, all he's done is put up numbers but his team hasn't been successful while he was doing so.