It makes sense to start out super young because a) a young actor with 10 movies? $$$ and b) where was the adult Spider-Man all this time when New York was under attack? Daredevil and Jessica Drew and Luke Cage are all Heroes for Hire meaning they don't WANT to be Avengers, but Spider-Man's moral compass would have had him in the mix for sure. A young kid who just got his powers? Maybe he wasn't ready for all that just yet.
In a world where I am in charge of Spiderman it would go something like this. End of Avengers 2 would have a post credit scene that pans into the outside of building that has a large sign that says "Oscorp". You would then fade into the inside of the building to a dorky looking kid taking the tour and boom Peter gets bit. You would have to include some sort of documents or discussion that would set the stage for Oscorp working to develop some sort of super soldier serium that includes animal based powers. As @therealdeal says during civil war you have a very young would be super hero fighting level crime, or even something that relates to events during A:AoU. And I agree that you need a Avenger to try to recruit him, namely Cap, Tony, or maybe even our good friend Nick Fury. I would hope that they manage to introduce both Spidey and Panther as secondary characters that add to the conflict. Also like @therealdeal you use this intro scene to set up some sort of tie in to the greater universe and through a few lines or a flashback you cover the highlights of his origins, much like they did with the Norton Hulk movie. At some point, probably the solo film, you continue to develop the Oscorp story line of genetic experimenting as a back drop to the introduction of the sinister six, which seems to be the way sony wants to push things. Ofc the craptastic origins of the Sinister Six being the mechanical whatever they were is replaced by the Oscorp genetics experiments and military tech development(maybe using stolen stark tech), you could fill out the roster however you like. Doc Ock, Rhino, Vulture, Vulture, Mysterio(Chem weapons), Beetle, Black Cat, Scorpion etc etc. whatever villians you want to through in there. It also doesnt have to be the full sinister six, you could simply introduce a coupld of villians to seed the ideas. Ofc along the way you later use this story line to give origins to character like venom aka real telling of Eddie Brock, carnage, the clones, etc and perhaps eventually several films down the line you start seeing other spider heros like Silk, Spider woman, Miles Morales, and Spider Gwen who have their origins based on Oscorp super soldier program. I would not turn Norman Osborn into the Green Goblin until much later and I would go with the Ultimate Universe version were he is a hulking monster and becomes said monster due to some twist of fate where he is either power hungry or feels forced to try it on himself to help his son and ofc ends up hating spidey for it. I think this would allow you to have a mini spidey verse to play with and not a simple rehashing of the same stuff we have seen.
Sounds great. I'm hesitant to build the story around Norman though because we've seen it sooo many times. I think it's a great story, but I just worry that we're going to keep seeing Spidey vs. Goblin for 20 straight years and 3 incarnations of those two. I like where you're going though for sure. The Ultimates story-line for Peter is exactly what we need in the MCU anyway: genetic testing. We're already seeing them dabble with it with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, now let's see it reach a new level. What if Norman is the anti-Stark? He's not just a business rival like Hammer, but a dirty business man. A guy willing to do all the dark things necessary to provide the United States government with weapons? What if he's been commissioned by the U.S. to manufacture Super Soldiers to fight either with or against the Avengers should they ever become threats? I'd love for that to be a long-term story, but I'd also love to start somewhere besides the Goblin. I'd love to start with just basic crimes. Easy stuff. A bank robber, some street thugs, maybe a doofus with some fancy equipment. Not until the end do I want to see Spider-Man in a situation where he's in dire straights. How about for the first movie, you see him take on Kingpin? He finds himself stuck fighting organized crime which puts him in way over his head. He encounters Daredevil who tells him he's in over his head, but Spider-Man keeps going. He ends up fighting Kingpin and we see that Kingpin has a bunch of juiced up bad guys too. Maybe he's got the Scorpion, Black Cat, and Vulture as hired body guards. Spider-Man wins and beats those bad guys. He hangs Kingpin outside all webbed up, but he's shaken about whether to keep being Spider-Man at all. At the end of the movie he's talking with Osborn. They discuss how Osborn has loaned him some of his "toys" as protection. They discuss "Spider-Man" and Osborn says he's well aware of the situation. End credit scene with Osborn's facilities housing Rhino, building more equipment for other popular bad guys, genetically experimenting on people. Last shot is of a group of people working in a lab labeled "Venom serum". What do you think? Osborn is included, but he's not the main villain. You set up the genetic testing while introducing some newer baddies. Still stays true to the Peter Parker-ness of it all.
Re: Osborn as Anti Stark. Thats exactly how i would want it. Norman is in the back ground of say the first 2 movies were he is a player, but not a villian. At somepoint later in the timeline he eventually becomes the green goblin, but thats after you are given plenty of other things to chew on. Norman could be in the back ground collecting super hero samples, like spiderman and perhaps even hulk and captain america, as well as the alien dna from the end of the first avengers to use to develop his military serums and tech. The only reason I dont see kingpin being used is because he is going to be full on in the heroes for hirer crew. You would need another stand in character for that.
I'm just trying to think of a villain that's worth something, but isn't Norman and isn't one of his many outlandish villains (like Scorpion honestly). Maybe a guy like Mysterio works too, but I'm not sure how they pull off Mysterio in the movies. I'm definitely into the vision you've got for Norman. It's exactly the same as mine. He can be used to bridge the gap between all of the Avengers and a whole ton of villains that haven't been really used yet. Genetic testing AND he's creating an army for the U.S. that can fight the Avengers. I think that's a perfect spot for him to land. Not until later, maybe after he's been brought low by Spider-Man or (one of) the Avengers does he resort to testing on himself and becoming the Goblin. And when that happens I'm definitely on board with the Ultimates version of the Goblin. a big Hulk-ish looking thing that still retains intelligence though enough to hunt Peter.
After thinking, googling, and even wiki-ing I came up with 2 pausible options for a "gateway" villian. 1. Silvermane aka Silvio Manfredi, an Italian mobster who rose through the ranks of an organized crime family known as Maggia. He is also obsessed with immortality and could be billed as a organized crime mastermind who is trying to push into Kingpins turf, and is doing the dirty work for Oscorp, though that would not be explicitly explained in the films, in return for muscle(aka the minor villians creations of Oscorp) and technology. He eventually becomes a cyborg of sorts after attempting to be immortal. You could easily change his back story and motivation and have something meaninful brought out of it. 2. Kraven. He could also be associated with the darker side of Oscorp and be the one who is importing the speciemens, or something like that. Either way you could allow for a new character to be introduced to the masses, ensure that oscorp is hinted at and never fully shown, and build a story line that builds both the MCU and Heroes for Hire. You could actually do both villians if you wanted to, Kraven being the face of black ops section of Oscorps, and Silvermane being the street level intro.
Silvermane is a GREAT idea. Awesome job. He's a perfect fit for what I'd like to see and it doesn't have to be Kingpin so that maybe you don't tread too early on Daredevil's story-line. Kraven is one that a lot of fans want to see. I'm not a huge Kraven guy, but I would be alright with him. You'd have to kind of change his look though. He's kind of an 80s feel type of bad guy. A little more brutish and cartoon-y. I'd be down with a modern take on him. Kraven hunting a teenage Spider-Man would make a little sense too. Spider-Man is all about that secret identity and a master hunter tracking him down to his high school and wreaking havoc would be a pretty fun story.
I agree completely with your take of Kraven. He is a great concept, but needs to be modernized. I could easily see him being in the mix as he wants to capture Spider man, and as a paid hunter for Oscorps.
I think a cool concept for them might be pairing Spider-Man with Doctor Strange. That way Spider-Verse is based in the magic part of the Universe and is a little more relateable. You could have Strange pull Spider-Men from different dimensions and things like that to kind of broaden the scope a little bit for Spider-Man's stories.
I haven't read through this entire thread, and I don't know comics at all, but this is great news to me. The only thing I'm not clear on is whether they have to get a new guy or can keep Garfield. I think the last 2 Spider-Man movies were garbage except for Garfield and Emma Stone. I would love to see him with the Avengers cast and think he'd fit right in. It would also help to be familiar with the actor and character like we were with all the other Marvel characters that got their own set up movies. Really I just hope to finally see SM done right, I think I'm in the monitory, but I never liked Raimi's SM movies either. They were cheesy and lame, and the villains are over the top ridiculous. In SM 2 when spidey shoots a bag of money at doc oc and says "here's your change!", I cringe. I can't even watch SM3, I pretend it doesn't exist. The last 2, I felt had solid casts and were missed opportunities, so again, I hope Garfield is kept on for the Marvel movies, and thank goodness Sony finally gives SM a chance to not suck.
I agree Garfield is the best part of the new movies, but he is out. I think that Sony and marvel are just abandoning that sinking ship entirely. And for the record I too thought the original series was cornball and didn't really like it either. As Kevin Smith pointed out, spider man is about the tension between the scared, awkward, social misfit Peter Parker and the bold, witty, superhero Spiderman. No one has come close to that yet. Hopefully we can see that unfold.
^ Garfield is out. Dylan O’Brien and Logan Lerman are options. http://www.slashfilm.com/two-names-new-spider-man-actor-garfield/
That's a shame, I really thought Garfield would have fit right in with the established Marvel cast. He's young, but not so young he looks like a little kid in a room full of men and women. That said those others aren't bad choices, I really liked the Maze Runner, and I thought Lerman was great in Perks of Being a Wallflower. Both played their roles pretty straight and serious though, I think SM can't lose his humor and that actor has to be able to pull that off too, which is what I thought Garfield did perfectly.
I would say that if Marvel gets to choose the new SM I trust them as I can't say they've been wrong with many of their choices. If Sony picks, I worry, because while Garfield was good, and his chemistry with Stone was as well, I can't say I liked many of their other choices. Franco and Topher Grace in particular were awful casting IMO. You can have your own opinions on Dunst, Molina, Foxx, Giamati, and others, but I thought they were bad too. Then again look what they had to work with.
I mean the writing in the 2nd series was truly awful from what I've seen and read. I've only seen snippets of the movies, but they're horribly written and had a complete lack of understanding of the character. I thought Toby was pretty good as Peter (not great), but was terrible as Spider-Man. From what I've heard Garfield was kind of the opposite. I'm pulling for Asa Butterfield. The kid is in their young wheelhouse. If they're going to go to high school, I don't want a cast that looks like they're working on their masters. I thought the original Spider-Man series was pretty good. Upon rewatching it's not amazing, but it's definitely pretty good. The first one is solid. The 2nd one is a really good movie. The last one is awful.
Asa doesn't rub me the wrong way. I'd be okay with that. Weezy: I think I agree with everything you said about casting. I thought Dunst was the best of those "others."
I think Asa would make a great Peter, but I'm not sure about being a good Spidey. And there in lies the problem of casting this role. On one hand you have the nerdy, socially awkward man who has some depth to him as he wrestles with issues like the registration act. Spidey is the opposite, he is witty, brash, and is all Parker wanted to be. Finding an actor that can do that, especially a young one is hard. Guys like Toby can be a good Parker, but come off as extra campy as Spidey. Garfield nails Spidey, but you never for a moment believe he is an awkward science geek as he skateboards down the street. Hopefully Fiege has something up his sleeve.
I'm not entirely sure about Butterfield's acting chops honestly. I didn't even watch Ender's Game, but I thought it was a pretty good sign that they thought highly enough to give this kid a large budget block-buster type movie at his young age. Could he pull of Spider-Man? I have absolutely no idea. I'm inclined to say no, because I think Spider-Man is really deep, rich character and it'd take someone either very talented or that understands the character innately to do the job. One thing about Marvel though is they're not afraid of making bold decisions in their hiring processes. They went with Chris Evans for Cap which was a bit of a stretch at the time. They got Renner for Hawkeye right before he blew up. They helped cement Scarlet as a top notch actress. Favreau to direct was a great choice. I thought Kenneth Branagh was an awesome pick to direct Thor, but somewhat out of left field. Not to mention the Russo Brothers, James Gunn, and casting Paul Rudd as Ant-Man... These guys are really thorough and seem to empower their employees to making the most of themselves. I have faith they'll find the right guy.
