Official Las Vegas Raiders Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Discussion' started by trodgers, Jan 17, 2020.

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  1. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    AOC: Two Halves with an Intermission

    From 10/01 to 11/19, AOC's stats:
    5 games, 90-145 passing, 946 yards, 3 TDs, 6 INTs, sacked 12 times, fumbled four times. The team scored 88 points in those games. AOC was sacked 12 times, for an average of 2.4 per game.
    -Baptism by fire. It took him some time to speed up the processing clock, and the team suffered at times.

    Intermission
    He had two games I'll call "transitional." He played well in one and not so well in the other, but he started cutting down on the TOs. The team had a chance to win both games, but they lost them both.
    2 games, 44-65, 419 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 0 Fumbles. The Raiders managed just 17 points combined and went 0-2. AOC was sacked 5 times, an average of 2.5 per game.
    -Cutting down on the TOs but not making the big throws.

    The Finale
    Then over the final four games of the season, AOC was good, and the team got results. I know about KC. These stats include that game.
    4 games, 79-133, 853 yards, 8 TDs, 0 INTs, 0 Fumbles. He was sacked 7 times, an average of 1.8 per game. The Raiders scored 130 points in those games, never fewer than 20, and went 3-1.
    -8 TDs vs. 0 INTs? Even with the stinker against KC, he finished strong. His ability to target receivers on those deep corner routes is pretty impressive, and he has great rapport with Tre and Davante. He's made some great connections with Jakobi, too.

    Lincoln Kennedy said the Raiders have greater needs than QB. He pointed to the OL. What do you guys think?
     
    trodgers, Jan 8, 2024
    #1981
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  2. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    ^Build the lines since we already have the skill players in some positions. Agree with Kennedy. Crosby needs help in the D-Line to free him up a bit.
     
    gcclaker, Jan 8, 2024
    #1982
  3. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    O'Connell has the touch to go with his arm. He is not afraid to throw deep.

    Jacobs, Renfrow and Garoppolo are just about gone. Jacobs because he is on a decline and always injured. Renfrow probably has some more gas in him but was not targetted much. Garoppolo is just spent.
     
    gcclaker, Jan 8, 2024
    #1983
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  4. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    gcclaker, Jan 8, 2024
    #1984
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  5. puffyusaf#2

    puffyusaf#2 - Lakers Starter -

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    You guys know what I think of AOC. I believe he very well could be our QB1. Most fans look at stats and fail to look at the whole game or circumstances both situational and intentional that affects the outcome of the game. AP said, after the KC game, that they wanted AOC to manage the game, don't make turnovers and they (AP and coaches) wanted to lean on the defense. The kid went 0-10 in the last 3 qtrs (I believe 4 of them were dropped passes). But he threw 3 passes a qtr? And we are like he can't get it done. No, he did what he was told to do and he did it well. That being said, from the start of the year, I have said the same thing Kennedy has said in that the O-line has to improve and was our biggest let down of the season (Marcus Peters is a fair argument to that notion) just look at the season as a whole starting with Jimmy.

    We had a proven QB with .700+ win percentage in the NFL. The dude had no time to throw the ball, no RB1 and a coach who was handcuffing the play calling. You look in this thread when JG was QB and you'll see I talked about the O-line not giving our guys time at all. When AOC took over he had an even worse hand to deal with because not only did he have the line JG had but now he has the QB coach calling plays for the first time under a head coach who is leading for the first time. But the biggest issue AOC faced was at least half his games his best OLine guy (Kolton) was out which means everyone was getting shifted. I also think big Mike going down hurt AOC big time because Mike was a big time threat for AOC down the field/middle of the field AND, more importantly, had become a great pass blocker. The other issue I had for the kid was how many dropped balls he got, when it mattered, from his receivers. We prob win the vikings game if Hunter doesn't fumble in the Redzone. We prob win the Colts game if Devante doesn't drop 2 or 4 critical balls (as well as a couple other guys) that hit his hands. Simply put, from my perspective, the kid is poised, puts (most) balls where they need to be and is not reckless with the ball at all. The only knock on him is he isn't a runner. I don't think he needs to be. He has every tool other than being a running QB.

    I think this kid has the ability to be a top QB in the league if we give him a real OC. I don't think BO did enough to warrant giving him the new year plus if AP is the coach I think he'll want a OC that likes to run the ball. A0C will be in a QB battle this off season which I think is a good thing but in the end I have faith this kid could def have us in the playoffs and win there. Just look at the simple stats you have on him. Give him a line that protects him, his TE back and a OC who can call an aggressive and intelligent game and he shines IMO.

    The 0line is the problem.
     
    puffyusaf#2, Jan 9, 2024
    #1985
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  6. puffyusaf#2

    puffyusaf#2 - Lakers Starter -

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    One knock on AOC is he has to do a better job of leading his receiver on the throw. I think his timing is off with his receivers at times with him throwing a bit behind them. I think he fixes that with true preseason work. His Receivers love him. His coach loves him. Does that mean he will be QB1? No but he def has it all. He def has no fear and throws a beautiful ball.

    Jacobs may be back depending on what he thinks his value is in FA market. The injury stuff is huge but I think he has some good years left especially if they use him as a one-two punch with Zues who has earned RB1 status which also means that Josh is more expendable. Josh isn't getting more than 5-6 mil from LV I don't believe.

    Hunter is def gone but I'd like to have him back (maybe that's nostalgia) with the right OC who could use him. Although Tucker may have bullied him out of his role on the team. So if Hunter is gone it isn't a surprise.

    Jimmy is gone because of his contract. I don't think he is spent personally. I think he is an excellent back up and a great teammate, veteran mentor to the young Qbs. His contract is toxic though.
     
    puffyusaf#2, Jan 9, 2024
    #1986
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  7. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree. I'd like to have all of them back. Jacobs since he has stated he'd like to stay. Him and White by committee would be great. Save the wear and tear on each other. The price for him to be retained I do not know. He is a Davis favorite however. Renfrow? There is only so much passes to go around with Adams, Meyers and the emergence of Tucker. Mayer needs to be used too. Renfrow does need to be utilized however. Send him to the NFC for a trade. As far as Garoppolo is concerned, he is the consumate pro. His throws are limited to short and midrange. His deep shots leaves a lot to be desired.
     
    gcclaker, Jan 9, 2024
    #1987
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  8. puffyusaf#2

    puffyusaf#2 - Lakers Starter -

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    I do think they may find a trade for Hunter or just release him and let him go where he wants. He is a gifted slot and would be nice for a team. Hearing (from fans mind you) that he could try to reconnect with DC in New Orleans. DC check down skills would be great for Hunter.

    Jimmy G def isn't throwing it 40 yards down field thats for sure. However, with a offensive line that gives him time he can def work in that 5-25yrd range which is where 90% of the passing game is played. I think people use that as an attack against aging players but, like brady who couldn't throw deep at all, Jimmy is smart and can def play within his skills especially with a healthy RB room. I also think he is still pretty mobile and can use his legs to pick up a 1st here and there. If MCD didnt get him that giant contract I do believe we'd keep him. If he restructures it we might keep him anyway if AP the coach. A young QB no matter if it AOC or a new guy needs a great vet to help him.
     
    puffyusaf#2, Jan 9, 2024
    #1988
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  9. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Final Player Ratings. I'll have more analysis later on.

    Quarterback Rating (Projection)
    AOC 72 (48)
    Garoppolo 60 (74)
    Hoyer 40

    Running Back
    Jacobs 70 (90)
    White 58 (36)
    Abdullah 50 (52)
    Bolden 23 (38)
    Johnson ?? (57)

    Oh, my division win projections vs. actual:
    Chiefs 13 (11)
    Chargers 9.5 (5)
    Raiders 8 (8)
    Broncos 6.5 (8)

    Raiders are the only team I hit on. Lol.
     
    trodgers, Jan 9, 2024
    #1989
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  10. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Gruden in line for SENIOR position in Nawlins coaching staff? Looks like a set-up on Allen.
     
    gcclaker, Jan 9, 2024
    #1990
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  11. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I can't see Gruden taking a backseat to anyone on the field.
     
    trodgers, Jan 9, 2024
    #1991
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  12. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree. I came across a vid segment of him cursing out the refs at the Pittsburgh game three years ago with loads of "F" bombs he was launching. Funny as hell.

    I don't know where Davis is leaning towards for the new regime but we'll know in three weeks or lesss.
     
    gcclaker, Jan 9, 2024
    #1992
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  13. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Wide Receiver - Rating vs. Projection
    Adams 87 (90)
    Meyers 81 (78)
    Tucker 61 (64)
    Renfrow 54 (63)
    Carter 39
    -The WR corps as a whole were solid, but Renfrow was a big disappointment. I think he's expendable now with the other top three guys. Adams, Meyers, and Tucker can stretch the field and make plays.

    Tight End
    Mayer 66 (71)
    Hooper 65 (70)
    Fotheringham 28
    Horsted 22
    Gentry x
    -Mayer wasn't quite as good as I thought he'd be, but he got close by season's end. Hooper was about as effective, making a nice 1-2 punch at TE.
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2024
    #1993
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  14. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Offensive Line - Rating vs. Projection
    Van Roten 86 (58!)
    James 85 (78)
    Miller 81 (92)
    Eluemunor 80 (84)
    Parham 77 (79)
    Munford 72 (61)
    Meredith 44 (36)
    Herron 65 (27)
    Parker 26 (n/a)
    Grasu 23 (n/a)
    Muti 13 (n/a)
    -Miller has started to show some nagging injuries, but he was awesome when on the field. James, Van Roten, and Munford were all better than I'd thought they'd be. Van Roten allowed 5 sacks but had zero penalties in 1000+ snaps. James had 7 miscues. Parham had 6 (5 were penalties). Miller had 5. Eluemunor had 11. Munford had 5 (4 sacks).

    Lincoln Kennedy said this was a group that needed an upgrade more urgently than QB, but I have to say it wouldn't be easy to improve the group. They were toward the bottom of the league in sacks allowed (only 6 teams allowed fewer).
     
    trodgers, Jan 10, 2024
    #1994
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  15. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Renfrow was a disappointment due to lack of targets as the other three you mentioned were given more opportunities. By the same token, he is prone to fumbling at the wrong time like the Minnesota game. Mayer was injured which took away O'Connell's security blanket.
     
    gcclaker, Jan 10, 2024
    #1995
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  16. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I wouldn't hate hiring Vrabel, but AP is the guy I'm rooting for.
     
    trodgers, Jan 13, 2024
    #1996
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  17. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Edge
    Rating vs. Projected
    Crosby 95 (95)
    Koonce 73
    Wilson 56 (69?)
    Rochell 46
    Robinson 38
    -Crosby right where we expected him, despite lofty expectations. Great job, big man. Who saw that breakout from Koonce? Wilson disappointed, but he may have found his role inside.
     
    trodgers, Jan 13, 2024
    #1997
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  18. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Defensive Interior - Rating vs. Projected
    Tillery 67 (57)
    Jenkins 66 (54)
    Butler 64 (35)
    Nichols 62 (69)
    Young 37 (60*)
    Silvera 26 (48*)
    -Pretty disappointing group overall. Then again, I didn't expect much from them, so they may have outperformed my thoughts on the squad. This is definitely a position that needs to improve. Young, a 3rd rounder, was a massive disappointment. Adam Butler came on strong to finish the season with 5 sacks, including 3 in his last three games.

    Linebacker
    Spillane 87
    Deablo 71
    Masterson 59
    Burney 39
    Mauga 24
    Bolton 19
    -I guess I didn't do projections on this spot. Spillane was a revelation. Huge season. Best season of his career, by far. Deablo had probably his best season, too. Masterson was adequate on the season. Didn't get much from Burney as a rookie.
     
    trodgers, Jan 14, 2024
    #1998
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  19. puffyusaf#2

    puffyusaf#2 - Lakers Starter -

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    I think the notion that Wilson was a disappointment has been harsh on the kid. He was never suppose to be a factor this year. His injury was known to take a year for him to finally get right. He got way more run than he was suppose to thanks to Jones being a braincase. His draft position and the fact that some other high rated guys drafted after him doing well this season it is not surprising he is looked down upon for his play. He improved a lot this year and, like you said, his move to the inside was huge for him because he could play with his limitations (from injury repair) while getting stronger. Koonce got a shot and showed he is legit Maxx's #2. But back to Wilson, I heard all year from player and coaches interviews talking about his work, his study, his evolution throughout the season. I really look for him to make a big leap next year.
     
    puffyusaf#2, Jan 14, 2024
    #1999
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  20. gcclaker

    gcclaker Moderator Staff Member

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    Kingsbury for OC?
     
    gcclaker, Jan 15, 2024
    #2000
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