Official Dc Thread

To be fair WB wanted Nolan attached, but Nolan saw what Snyder wanted to do and ran away as fast as he could from it. Remember when his name was attached to Man of Steel and it was roughly connected to Bale's Batman movies? Then Nolan bailed and it's completely disconnected even though Affleck is an older Batman and his car is basically the same...

I think they can definitely dump Snyder. They've already rumored George Miller to be involved in the process (guy who did Mad Max). Just get rid of Snyder and give the reins to Miller.

 

Can't do it at this point, not without seriously delaying JL. Like I said, JL is scheduled to begin shooting (not pre-production), on April 11th. A director couldn't step in that quickly and figure out what he wanted to do with each shot, make script changes etc. Add to that the fact that there are so many actors involved in this project that have their schedules timed around this...we are stuck with Snyder for at least Justice League 1. Justice League 2 possibly as well since I thought I read they were filming back to back.

 

Didn't realize it was that soon. Okay fine, delay Justice League. It'd be a thousand times better than letting Snyder continue to shove out crap products with his crappy ideas. These movies are not resonating with fans. I wouldn't be surprised if this movie struggles to hit 1 billion in box office and that's a HUGE problem for them.

 

That's not really an amazing distinction though. There's no competition in March for a movie of that scale. The only other opposition it had was the first Hunger Games movie which wasn't even nearly as popular as Batman OR Superman, let alone both. This movie's success in the box office will hinge on people watching it AFTER a strong opening and it opened alright, but has almost no legs to continue to make money as word-of-mouth is awful and reviews have been crushing (unfairly in my opinion).

Not to mention the movie opened in 4,242 theaters in ONE weekend which artificially inflates those numbers. Many movies open either internationally or domestically first, then open in the other market after that.

 

I don't disagree. I'd be happy with a year long delay if it got rid of Snyder.

 

That's seriously what needs to happen to make good DC movies. There's a weird group overbashing this movie, but there's an even weirder group of people defending this movie more than it deserves. You don't need to be a hater to understand this movie stinks. Coming to terms with it will help move forward in a better direction.

 

Jeez talk about misplaced, but it all comes back to a deeper point and why these movies keep failing: these guys don't know the characters they're writing about.

One thing Marvel can do well right now is write characters that are interesting and engaging in modern context while still staying true to their comic counterparts. WB and DC are trying to modernize their characters by being darker and grounded in reality, but that kills their characters. They aren't grounded in some reality where Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman have to kill to get their way. That's not who they are. Just write compelling stories that fit the character and stop trying to be edgy. It sucks and (nearly) everyone hates it.

 

Don't disagree with that either. I don't think the movie full on "stinks," but like I said, it has the same type of thing going on that Transformers does. A crappy, style-over-substance director taking a beloved property and riding its popularity to box office glory. It's freaking Batman AND Superman AND Wonderwoman. You barely have to try to get people in the theater. Just like big shiny robots in Transformers will get people through the door. This movie will probably make a billion just because of the names involved, and people will continue to watch the movies because they are "Event" movies akin to watching the Superbowl.

 

I'll be very interested to see if it makes it to a billion. Right now, I'd say it's not going to happen and that's INEXCUSABLE. Batman, Wonder Woman, and Superman are the three most popular characters in American mythology and they can't beat Iron Man 3??

Snyder needs to go asap. Delay Justice League and move on with someone who knows what they're doing.

 

Not just godawful reviews, but even word of mouth has been bad. How many people have you talked to that said,"It's really good! Go check it out, seriously!" I'd guess not many... Most people I've spoken to (including myself) have said either a) "I mean you should probably see for yourself before you judge, there's some cool stuff but nah it's not very good." or b) "It stinks. Don't waste your money."

It had the largest drop off from Friday to Sunday and that's really an indicator of a movie that pumped out TONS of marketing, but didn't live up to the hype. Other movies in the Top 5 drop off are Age of Ultron, Kick a** 2, and Fantastic Four. I forget what the other one was, but there's your list of movies that spent money to market but once the first wave saw it and it didn't live up to the hype, the second wave got smaller.

 

They need a Kevin Fiege type figure that has a love for the product and a vision. One man at the top. Not this committee thing they are kind of doing. I also don't think we can discount the fact that Marvel Studios is the actual comic book brand's movie arm. It is owned by Disney like Lucasfilm, but from what I've heard, they stay out of the way. WB is trying to do DC properties as opposed to Marvel doing their OWN properties.

I don't mind a darker take than Marvel. They need to do something to distinguish themselves. I don't mind that they didn't do a bunch of solo movies first. But they needed to have a rock solid plan to roll out the universe if they're going to go (comparatively speaking) from what would have been Iron Man 1 straight into Avengers 1. WB has really done a great job with the casting. I will gladly eat crow on Batfleck. He was great, and I thought he would suck. Cavil I think is a good Superman and a talented actor. Gadot was a solid WW. Alfred, Perry White, Lois Lane...they are casting great. They have the best characters...In 2005, if you said name the top superheroes, it would have gone Batman, Superman, Spiderman, Wonderwoman.....................and then everyone else.

Goyer was gravy-training off Nolan, and if all his other work is any indication, had little to do with the greatness that was the Dark Knight trilogy.

And Snyder? I watched Watchmen the other day. People say it had aged well, and that it was "ahead of it's time." Nope. still boring as f***. Suckerpunch? Please. 300 was good for what it was...which was a hyperviolent, testosterone filled, slightly homo-erotic bloodbath. But you want to hand a guy who has 300 as his only decent film the keys to the second greatest intellectual property in the modern world (behind Star Wars obviously)?

I applaud WB for finally having the stones to move forward with a cinematic universe since they dragged their feet for years. But I also think they should pump the brakes on Snyder, even if it means delaying some stuff. Man of Steel and BvS are not franchise killers in the same way F4 and Amazing Spiderman 2 were. They can rebound and really turn this universe into something special. But with Style > Substance Snyder at the helm, this universe will continue to devolve into a Transformers type franchise.

 

I think this movie could have worked so easily. You start with Batman vs. Superman alone.

Batman vs. Superman- It's important to retcon the Man of Steel, so this movie makes some sense. Keep the aesthetic, it's fine. The start of BvS sets this up nicely. Bruce is upset with Superman and he needs to teach him humility and the value of life. This also lets you set up the relationship between Lois and Clark. She is his tie to humanity and therefore his moral compass regarding them. She can be the one saying, "Clark I think you're killing too much" and he can feel that more personally. Wonder Woman isn't necessary and could really muddle things, keep her out. Go through with Batman finding Kryptonite and running all the experiments that they had "Lex" running. Batman is a scientist and investigator. If he finds a threat, he'll do everything to stop that threat. Have Batman confront him, drag him to a powerplant. Batman proceeds to beat him down. After Batman has beaten him pretty good, responders rush on to the scene to the horror of Batman. Superman does the Superman-y thing and saves everyone by taking the brunt of the hit from the exploding reactor while Batman saves the responders. Now you have a reasonable reason for Batman to trust Superman. At the end of the movie you can have Batman say something along the lines of, "Maybe it's time for you to meet the others." Superman says, "Others?" Batman gives him a look, end of movie. At THAT point you can maybe show the little cameos you wanted to show. Cut out the emails, just show the other heroes doing hero things or at least set them up. Show John Stewart in a coat with his GL ring on, show Wonder Woman saving people, show Aquaman swimming alongside whales or sharks or something, and show Flash doing something more Flash-like. Maybe Flash could stop a bank robbery while flirting with a girl? That'd be the most Flash thing I could think of. Don't interrupt the movie flow though to awkwardly introduce Justice League members that won't be in the movie. Why would you DO that?? It's awful film making...

Obviously there's room for improvement, but this tells a concise story that fits the universe and stays true to the characters. Is that so hard? If you want to avoid the Marvel "after credits scene" for some reason, then go ahead and show this stuff at the end of the movie. I believe what they've set up is that Lex is some sort of vassal for Darkseid. So you have a moment at the end of the movie to introduce Lex. Not the Riddler pretending to be Lex, but the real Lex Luthor.

 

Perfect. That's all you needed. Then do solo movies that actually fully introduce the characters. Then...Justice League. Simple. Studios try to spoon-feed the audience stuff as if we are idiots.

 

I have a buddy who does a film podcast and I was on it with him recently. He said sites like Rotten Tomatoes are trying to make an example of this movie so that studios stop pumping out nonsense like this. I think they've been overly harsh, so that makes sense.

For the next slate I'm definitely delaying Justice League. Let the WW movie be made, it's too late to stop that train.

I'd be okay if they went with Justice League next, but it has to make sense. With Batman vs. Superman you set up a world where all these people exist, right? The greatest heroes in the world (plus Cyborg for some reason), but that doesn't mean they're going to like each other or want to hang out or anything. The only thing they have in common is wanting to help people. Give them an Avengers-style reason for that. Some bad guy comes at the Earth and their only hope is that these heroes can unite to stop the threat. The cartoon Justice League did it perfectly, just follow that formula. Crazy monsters attack the world after devastating Mars, Martian Manhunter shows up and helps us figure out how to defeat them. Don't over complicate things with 15 sub-plots that don't tie up, unnecessary characters, and find a writer that knows what people actually say to each other.

Then go into more individual movies that are set-up from that one. How does a world exist now where humans know aliens are real and apparently super powerful? How do we react to a group of people that is strong enough to defend us from those people? How do we garner trust with them? Do we? (We don't so that sets up government funding to Lex Luthor to produce weapons against these people). I mean it's not that damn complicated.