Official 2016 Free Agency Thread

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Nov 16, 2015.

Page 402 of 422
  1. Toklat

    Toklat - Lakers Starter -

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    I'm with not only do we not trade for Westbrook but we shouldn't try for him in free agency either group. We don't need someone hampering the young guns developing by trying to do it all himself. Tromping around on the sideline yelling at people and not taking responsibility for what goes wrong. KD loved OKC and they loved him there. They had a great team and he was treated like King Ding. It seems to me that Westbrook had to be a large part of the reason he left. Luke doesn't need to have to fit a temperament like that into an otherwise very unselfish highly motivated group. There is no getting around Westbrook being a great player but so far hasn't shown he can be a good team player. I want the all in it together feeling. We want to get back to winning championships we develop our young players and sign quality high character free agents. We win championships and feel good doing it.
     
    Toklat, Jul 14, 2016
    #8021
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  2. Kenzo

    Kenzo - Lakers All Star -

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    I want Boston to gut their team, lose some of their picks and then watch Russ bolt to California :D.
    Ainge is a one stingy mofo though. He'll try to low ball Presti...
     
    Kenzo, Jul 14, 2016
    #8022
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  3. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers MVP -

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    No trades, Mitch will be stripped clean by Presti. If you thought the Nash trade was a disaster, a Westbrook trade might be ELE.
     
    KareemtheGreat33, Jul 14, 2016
    #8023
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  4. Kou

    Kou - Lakers 6th Man -

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    That would be so so sweet, the Doomsday thread would be fabulous!
     
    Kou, Jul 14, 2016
    #8024
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  5. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    Aww geez I didn't know he was one of THOSE. Early LeBron esque. :Kobepuking: I don't want that kind of s*** on our sidelines. Give up nothing for this guy. If he wants to be in L.A. sign him in FA, but keep our talent here.
     
    LTLakerFan, Jul 14, 2016
    #8025
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  6. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    Just doesn't make much sense to me to trade for Westbrook When we could keep our young guys and sign him as a free agent. If he goes elsewhere then so be it. I like him but his game has flaws, he has no rings, his style of play probably just contributed to Durant leaving, etc etc.

    If he wants to be here then great but I just wouldn't gut the team for him.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Jul 14, 2016
    #8026
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  7. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    *Someone will have to check my math here.

    Westbrook is better than any of our young players. He's also almost certainly better than Nance, Randle, and Clarkson will ever be. And he's probably better than Ingram and DA will ever be. He's that good. It's not about overrating our players. It's about the comparison.

    If we trade for Russell:
    What do we give up? Two young players? Picks? sets for salary? Probably all of these. So, you're looking at a team that loses either DA or Ingram and then either Randle or JC, probably a pick, and some salary fillers.
    LA: guts its young talent, loses picks, and has no assurances that Westbrook returns.
    Russell: can then sign the full five-year contract, which will look a bit like Conley's 5 year, $153M deal. He'll have 9 years' service, so he'll be in the middle tier. His contract would start at 24.1M per season. So, over the course of five years, he makes 140.1M, I think. That sounds great.

    If we don't trade for Russell:
    We keep all of our young players. We have a crazy deep guard/wing rotation.
    Westbrook/Clarkson
    Russell/
    Ingram/Deng
    Randle/Nance
    Mozgov/Zubac
    We can surely land a ring chaser or two to fill in for depth - another wing, another big.
    LA: Gets one of the five best players in the NBA, keeps its young core in tact at a low price, and allows us to decide, when the deciding time comes, which players have panned out and which haven't.
    Russell: He signs a 1+1 with us, earns 24.1M in the first season, and then he opts out of his second year, which would have paid him 25.2M (That's 700k less than he could have made on a five-year Full Bird Deal). He now has 10 years' service at this point (after 2017-18), and he is eligible for the next higher tier salary. His new contract can start at 28.1M, roughly, can go four years, and can have 4.5% raises. 29.4, 30.1, 32.1, and 33.5. So, through five years, he makes 153.2M.

    In other words, in Scenario A, LA is worse off, and so is Russell. If he's not down with that, he's not worth it.
     
    trodgers, Jul 14, 2016
    #8027
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  8. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    hopefully, boston thinks the same way. again, the risk is that he gets moved and decides to stay. then you're back where we are now: hoping against hope that one of our young guys makes an unforeseen quantum leap into superstardom.

    anyway, i'm sure all of these scenarios will be or have been discussed with his agent. if he's not moved, it probably means he's been persuaded by an argument like that above.

    historically, players in his position have been traded. and only in the dwight howard case did it backfire on the team that traded for the player.
     
    abeer3, Jul 14, 2016
    #8028
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  9. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    The Thunder have been one of the most talented teams in the league for a while. If Westbrook couldn't get that team to a title how well is he really going to do with a gutted Lakers roster? Coaches had to force him to share the ball with Durant (and that only worked for so long) but he's gonna give it up to young guys like Ingram?

    I know I'm being tough on him but if we're going to break the team up to get him these are the things that go through my mind.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Jul 14, 2016
    #8029
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  10. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    The talent has been really top heavy though. Ibaka hasn't been the same intimidating inside force he was for his first few seasons for a while now. He decided he wanted to be a stretch 4. Other than that, who do they have? Adams had one good playoff run. Kanter is without a doubt a one dimensional player. We'd have to go back to the Harden days when they were really "full" of talent, but at that point, they were also really, really young. They also have had injuries every season to someone in the playoffs. Durant missing seasons. Westbrook missing seasons...This was the first time in a long time everyone was healthy, and they pushed a 73 win team to the brink and should have won the series had the NBA not decided to extend the series by letting Draymond get away with kicking some dude in the nuts on national television (then subsequently suspending him for brushing a guy's arm with his hand which allowed that series to extend).

    Point is...Yes, the Thunder haven't gotten a title. But when you are super top heavy (two guys) and one of them goes down every season, you can't put that on the guy who isn't hurt. If either Shaq or Kobe were hurt for any one one of those 3 peat runs, we wouldn't have been champions that season.

    But I'm saying all this to stick up for Westbrook and the Thunder, and there is no way I trade pieces for him when we could sign him in the offseason. MAYBE I move Clarkson since he would be replaced in the starting lineup by Westbrook, or Randle since we have a competent young backup in Nance. But I wouldn't trade both and I wouldn't move Ingram or Russell for him.
     
    Savory Griddles, Jul 14, 2016
    #8030
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  11. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    "In other words, in Scenario A, LA is worse off, and so is Russell. If he's not down with that, he's not worth it."

    No Down No Deal!!
     
    LTLakerFan, Jul 14, 2016
    #8031
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  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Well, who was on the roster when Shaq was acquired in 96. When Jerry acquired Shaq, he was coming to a team that had over 50 wins; 53-29 to be exact. Let's take a look at how that particular roster and how it was assembled.

    Anthony Peeler (Drafted 15th by Lakers in 92)
    Sedale Threatt (Acquired by Lakers for 3 secound-round draft picks)
    Nick Van Exel (Drafted in 2nd Round by Lakers in 93-94)
    Derek Strong (Acquired by Lakers in Free Agency)
    Fred Roberts (Acquired by Lakersin Free Agency)
    Anthony Miler (Acquired draft rights by Lakers from GS)
    George Lynch (Drafted by Lakers 12th)
    Frankie King (Drafted 37th by Lakers in 2nd-round)
    Eddie Jones (Drafted 10th by Lakers)
    Magic Johnson
    Vlade Divac (Drafted by Lakers)
    Cedric Cebellos (Acquired by Lakers as Free Agent)
    Elden Campbell (Drafted 27th by Lakers)
    Corie Blount (Acquired Blount through trade from Chicago)

    Interesting mix of players. None of those players were on our championship winning teams. Of course we hit the lotto the following year drafting Kobe, but that's not my point. We're undergoing a similar experiment with the guys we have on our team now. Trades, Free Agency, and the Draft. Jerry West kept this team together, though, they were a PO team and Shaq came the following year to join us.

    Then, of course, when we knew what Kobe could be, and what we had in Shaq, we moved for pieces around (including coaches) to see what could fit, and Jerry assembled a championship roster after identifying ans solidifying the cornerstones (Kobe, Shaq) to build around. I wouldn't trade my existing assets for Westbrook, personally, but I do know that the hardest thing to find in this league is a superstar and Westbrook (like him or not) is one of those guys.

    I think we have a budding star in Russell. He's improved in almost every area, and I think this season we will see that very clearly. I don't think you give him up, IMO, but I can be convinced. I'm not completely inflexbile toward trading any of of our young players. However, Russell is a player you build with and around and pair with another star, and it's all systems go after that. I'm not into giving Ingram up, either (although, I can be convinced if it's the right deal). His ceiling is very high. Unfortunately, that's who teams will be asking for.

    The most I give up this season is Randle, Clarkson. Nance makes Randle expendable too me, and Clarkson while I like him, has a very favorable contract, and I don't think possesses the ceiling that Ingram and Russell do. that's probably my best offer. Randle, Clarkson, Williams and a late 1st or something to that effect. Either way, I wouldn't trade for Westbrook right now as I said earlier; keep your assets, evaluate what you have this year, and go form there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    LaVarBallsDad, Jul 14, 2016
    #8032
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  13. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm sorry but what?...

    We all realize that Westbrook is probably better than any young player we have right now? There is a high, high probability that he'll be twice the player any of our players is likely to be. You don't even want him on the team?? In favor of our young players? That's madness. It's one thing if you don't want to trade the young assets for him. I get that. I disagree, but I get that. It's quite another thing if you don't want to sign him in FA just on the off chance he doesn't fit our offense.

    And no I'm not willing to blame Westbrook for Durant getting cold feet. Is Westbrook selfish at times? Absolutely. You know who else was selfish? Durant. You know whose fault and responsibility it also falls on to stop that sort of behavior? The coaches and management as well as the other players. Durant ran away from Westbrook because he was too scared to tell him to share the ball more. The two of them are extremely close and always have been and Durant didn't want to hurt his friend's feelings. So instead of confronting him in a healthy way, he just left.

    If Westbrook comes here you work the offense around him. He's a Top 5 player in the NBA today and to not want to sign him in FA just because we like the young kids is a huge, huge mistake.
     
    therealdeal, Jul 14, 2016
    #8033
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  14. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    Injuries or not that team was way more talented than we are and was so for several seasons. The point remains that if he couldn't get that team to the title what's he gonna do with our young guys? He may never play with a guy as good as Durant again.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Jul 14, 2016
    #8034
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  15. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    Now I would have to consider that trade.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Jul 14, 2016
    #8035
  16. D-Fish Man

    D-Fish Man - Lakers 6th Man -

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    That's the best option for him, but it won't happen. OKC is not going to let him walk. They. Will. Trade. Him. And they'll wait till they find a place where Westbrook agrees to remain.
     
    D-Fish Man, Jul 14, 2016
    #8036
  17. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

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    If cp3 and blake both excercjse their opt. And they sign wb to the 30mill max they can only bring back one of cp3 and blake at that 30mill max, i dont see cp3 or blake taking a paycut
     
    Khmrp, Jul 14, 2016
    #8037
  18. ThizGuy83

    ThizGuy83 - Rookie -

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    If we get Westbrook. Only through free agency. Clarkson had already stated he is willing to come off the bench if need to be. Dlo and Westbrook starting. Clarkson as our sixth man.
     
    ThizGuy83, Jul 14, 2016
    #8038
  19. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    I'm honestly not sure that adding Westbrook to the Clippers would work. I think they'd still implode with those personalities.
     
    ElginTheGreat, Jul 14, 2016
    #8039
  20. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah. They can't afford all three. 80 million with these new maxes (especially a tenured max like Paul) would be gigantic. Now if they all got together and agreed to 25 each...I guess it could happen.
     
    Savory Griddles, Jul 14, 2016
    #8040
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