Official 2016 Free Agency Thread

I disagree. I really like Clarkson, but he is not anywhere near Butler on either end. Butler is arguably a top 15 player. A top 15 player is worth 2 top 30 players. As the great Dr. Buss said when talking Kobe off the ledge a few years back. If I have a 10 carat diamond, why would I trade it for 10 1 carat diamonds? Clarkson is a good player, but will likely never be a top 30 or even top 40 player in this league. That means for us not to do this trade, Ingram would have to be a bonafide blue chip, can't miss prospect. With his wiry frame, there is no way you can say that. In fact, unless Butler REALLY wants out and Chicago has some strange dislike for him, Chicago isn't trading a top 15 player for a potentially solid 6th man and an unknown (granted highly-touted) draft pick.

 

IF our rookies pan out. You do realize that most teams who build through the draft take decades right? There's countless failures and very few successes to building this way. Everyone is quick to point out the Thunder and the Warriors, but the Warriors ended up getting a few guys to build around (getting extraordinarily lucky) and then trading for veterans like David Lee, Andrew Bogut, and Andre Iguodala.

Other teams that have been building through the draft: Charlotte, Utah, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Orlando, Denver, Boston... I mean some of these teams are okay, but most of them are either still mired in mediocrity or will never amount to a championship team.

What I'm proposing keeps our best two young players while getting talent that can win today.

 

I guess, but I can't name 15 players who I'd rather have than Butler.

 

Clarkson is definitely the player I would trade out of our 3 young guys. Nothing against Clarkson but I think Russ and Randle have the higher ceilings. I would do the #1 pick + Clarkson for Butler in a heartbeat.

 

I went through every roster. There isn't one player in the Atlantic division I'd take over him. Lebron, Drummond and George in the Central. John Wall in the Southeast Division.

In the Western Conference. The Northwest division has Durant and Westbrook. The Pacific has Green, Curry, Klay and CP3. The Southwest has Davis and Leonard.

That's 12 guys. Then you have guys like Lillard, Harden, Griffin, Antetokounmpo that are right around the same level for different reasons. Young players like Towns and Wiggins have the potential to be better, but they aren't yet.

I said Butler is arguably top 15. I can only name 12 that I would undoubtedly take before him. Then we start getting down to team needs, etc. I think you are seriously undervaluing Butler if he's 30th. He plays terrific defense and scores 21 ppg. He is considered by a lot of analysts as the second best two way wing in the league behind Leonard.

 

Barnes: 11.4 points, 4.9 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 0.7 steals, 0.2 blocks, in 30.7 minutes. Shooting 45.2% from the field.
Butler: 21 points, 5.2 rebounds, 4.4 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.6 blocks in 37.1 minutes. Shooting 45.2% from the field.

Barnes: AST% 8.1, STL% 1.1, USG% 15.8, OWS 2.6, DWS 1.7, VORP 0.7
Butler: AST% 19.7, STL% 2.3, USG% 24.3, OWS 5.7, DWS 2.5, VORP 3.3

I think there's two things Barnes does better than Butler: shoot and jump. Everything else? Butler is a way better basketball player.

 

Butler's NOT a 3 and D player, but you don't need threes if you can do other things well. He can score like a boss.

 

Yes.

His shooting has gone down this year in part due to some lagging injuries that you've pointed out and in part because he's been asked to do a lot more than he's used to (or maybe built for). He's been hot and cold this season and had a horrible March shooting-wise which really killed any hope he had of improving his FG%.

The problem with Barnes is he's only 23, but he's been in the league for 4 years now. He has yet to make any marked improvements in any facet of his game. Look at his numbers as a rookie compared to today, they're incredibly consistent. This year Andre Iguodala has missed a lot of time and Barnes was unable to fill that void. I like Barnes a lot and I wouldn't be mad at the Lakers for making a run at him, but this season he did NOT distinguish himself in the way he should have.

Last year was slightly better, but this year he regressed right back to the start. He's got issues focusing and finding his places to attack offensively and defensively. He gets by a lot on his pure talent.

Meanwhile, Butler gets better somehow every single season. He didn't come in as a scorer, he now scores 20 points per game. He has improved his assist numbers every single year. His assist to turnover ratio has improved every year.

And he's only 26 for goodness sake! It's not like he's some old fart or something.

You know how many players are averaging 20 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, and 1.7 steals? Only five: Paul George, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, and Jimmy Butler. Of those, only George is younger at 25 years old. Westbrook is already 27 years old and Curry is 28 years old.

 

We can mildly overpay for some good additions.

Vasquez, Afflalo, Deng, Ezeli, Mahinmi...just some options.

Can we nab a legit max player? I don't know, man. But things can happen between now and then.

 

I expect our scouting department to have looked into all the top prospects by now. It's well documented that the Lakers are high on Simmons. Mitch was out internationally scouting Bender personally. I'm sure we've got tabs on somewhat local Jaylen Brown. I'm sure we've been out to see Brandon Ingram and Kris Dunn too. When it's all said and done, I'll trust our scouting department whether or not the kid in the draft is better than Butler (or whoever else we could trade for), but assuming we keep it, I absolutely expect this pick to be shopped this year no matter where we land.

I like Clarkson a lot and I keep saying I'd be perfectly happy keeping him, but we need to improve right away. I'm not excited about the idea of having Randle, Russell, and Ingram/Simmons all be between 19-22 years old. It'll take them until their mid-20s to even know if they're good enough to win a ring. That's 2-3 years from now and in that time frame they might not be good enough at all.

I'd rather have Russell/Randle building to carry the team once Butler and maybe Whiteside or something start on their decline. I'd rather be competitive as soon as we can be than wait and hope that our young kids figure it out.