Marc Gasol Discussion: The Rain In Spain Falls Mainly On The Plain

Discussion in 'NBA Discussion' started by Cookie, Nov 22, 2020.

  1. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    if i see full season stats reported again, i might lose my mind. if you can't see how that's totally irrelevant, there's not a discussion to be had.

    pretty much the whole reason you're missing my point is that you're not focusing on specific lineups, which was what started the whole thing: a center with gasol's skill set fits better with our other projected starters.

    thanks for supporting my point? the argument that our offense was better over the season where lebron and AD played and were healthy is indeed, not useful to the discussion.

    the trez lineup was limited sample size (and it played mostly against second units), but yes, he's also underrated on this forum. i agree. and he should have gotten a chance to play in the playoffs.

    anyway, i think trading marc for dj is a downgrade.

    now, if marc's heart wasn't in it, fine. totally understandable given the drummond fiasco. also, he's old and spain is nice.

    but we lost flexibility in our style of play when we basically got a second, inferior howard.
     
  2. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    The point I was making is that Gasol was irrelevant, he was the only big man on the roster. So nothing showed that he was really anything special,besides the fact that he was the only center we had. I saw nothing definitive that said that Gasol somehow, made that lineup successful. There was no other center to compare him to. Therefore I guess by default, you can say that he was a good fit. The numbers you posted indicated that without AD, other lineups were more effective minus Gasol. Ergo my point that the guy wasn't specifically, any kind of impactful player. That's cool, he only averaged 20 mins a game. A lot gets made about the Drummond thing for some reason, the fact is that the FO felt that Gasol wasn't getting it done, we signed Jones before we added Drummond. Tells me that we still felt the need to address the center position. Maybe the FO didn't value those numbers you posted as much as you do. IDK..I did know that we would be moving on from Marc Gasol during the off-season, I wasn't sure exactly how, but the move was eventually made.
     
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  3. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    we needed a backup center with some size because harrell couldn't step in and start against traditional centers.

    again, the onus here is on those who claimed gasol was bad and a problem, which you're admitting was in fact, false.

    and again, what kicked this off was my contention that having unskilled centers may pose challenges for lineups with westbrook at pg and AD at the 4, simply because teams will collapse 3-4 guys into the paint.

    some of the data i presented above run contrary to that, suggesting it's possible to be successful even with lineups like that.

    even if gasol was going to be gone, i liked the idea of having a center who couldn't be totally ignored outside the paint on offense.
     
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  4. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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  5. Wino

    Wino - Lakers 6th Man -

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    and that's why Howard has developed a killer 3!!!!

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Wino

    Wino - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I just don't really give a sh*t about Gasol. He was never going to be a difference maker for us. Yeah, he had some skills that could be exploited for us but, at best, he only pushed us up a small tick. I understand the positives that people made about him, but I also saw the negatives that could be exploited. He was/is way better than Drummond ever has been and that was a bit of a disappointing situation. I imagine that promises were made and Pelinka had to make that promise to get the trade done. It was a chance the team felt they needed to make.

    With all of their moves with big men, they know a few things:

    1. Ultimately, AD is going to play center in the playoffs, at the very least.
    2. There are very few big men who really make a huge difference in the modern game.
    3. Center spacing is not nearly as important as everyone wants to make it, especially on a defense first team like the Lakers.
    4. If we actually have outside 3 point shooters who can make their shots, this is almost a moot point anyway.
    5. What Lebron and AD want is more important than what we want!!

    Gasol was a worthy experiment but, as has been alluded to in other articles, he was whining about his role and we got rid of the whiners. If he was the second coming of Jokic or Embid, I would be pissed, but he is not. I am done with this BS about Gasol, he is not a Laker anymore. He is a very good player, I am not disparaging him. But his timing with us was never right, not our fault, not his fault, just the way the league is set up now.
     
  7. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    upload_2021-9-13_14-15-24.png

    so, exactly what i've been saying. note the team source's comment.

    1. probably, but he won't start there unless we're playing a smallball team, imo.
    2. not sure i agree. AD was a huge reason we got a ring. and jokic and embiid were 1 and 2 in mvp voting the following year. but at the vet min, definitely not.
    3. it's not important generally, but most teams play 3-4 shooters at the non-c positions. our starting lineup is not built that way.
    4. we do have more shooters, but how many of them are going to play at a time? which of the big three are you sitting to get the extra shooter on the floor? you don't have to if he's the center.
    5. i've seen nothing that indicates that gasol leaving is what lebron and AD wanted. now, they may have driven the drummond thing, which should tell people that maybe at some point you can't do everything they say.

    i just really hope that lesson was learned. that was bush league; gasol is 100% correct.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  8. Wino

    Wino - Lakers 6th Man -

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    1. He won't start against Embid or Jokic, but not sure he cannot score on those guys with some ease, he just can't body them up,
    2. Yep, you named the 3 guys I could think of, hence saying there are few big men who really make a difference in this league. Maybe you can add Gobert!???
    3. Most teams cannot play our level of defense.
    4. We will get enough out of them, Lebron, AD and our center will not always be in the games at the same time.
    5. Exactly, and if they wanted Drummond and knew the deal up front, which I assume they did, then they likely signed off on the situation. I really do not think Pelinka does much of anything without running it through his team. He is a players first GM.
     
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  9. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I think if teams strategy is to drop 3-4 guys into the paint against us, we are going to blow their doors off. With the illegal defense rule, I'm not sure that is even possible in the first place. That doesn't make any sense, these are NBA players, you just can't run off and leave them wide open and expect that to be some kind of sound strategy. Hell Rondo can knock down shots if you gave him enough time.
     
  10. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i mean, we literally witnessed teams do this against us for the past couple of years, though. if AD is fully operational, it can change things, though.

    right now, our bigs are AD, howard, and jordan. that's just not super flexible. the last two years we had kieff, trez, and/or gasol to help us counter different kinds of matchups, and we're missing that now.

    just feel like the homogeneity at center is less than optimal.

    i suppose the upside is that we can plug and play those guys, which also seems to be the philosophy at the sg spot. essentially, all positions not played by the big three are just a bunch of the same dudes like suits on a rack.
     
  11. Wino

    Wino - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Which teams have the best defense, and which teams have the best offense? Who is going to match up with us?

    What I like about this team is they have a strong post defense, no way around that. Now we have a couple of guards who can clamp down on D outside and on penetrations while still having some pretty solid offensive capabilities. What competitive team has as much depth as us? Maybe I have rose colored glasses but after looking at rosters, I think we have the best roster. Sure, we have some holes, but everyone else does too. I like this team, if we stay focused as a team, we gonna win another ring!! The ONLY teams that really scare me are the Nets and the Bucks but I like our odds, especially when they will beat the hell out of each other before we meet the winner in the finals. Nobody in the west scares me right now, we will see how the season goes, lots of good teams, just like our chances more than a little.
     
  12. Slick2021

    Slick2021 - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Honestly, I just get the feeling that AD was never all that enamored with Gasol. It's not exactly something he's ever said, but I don't remember him pointing out how much Gasol's presence was a big deal for him either. He pushed for Drummond, he's already had success with Dwight, and seems happy with the Jordan signing. I know he supposedly promised to play more 5 with Russ on board, but it also looks like he wants to have a couple of bruisers on the squad too.

    https://www.silverscreenandroll.com...linka-lakers-thank-nba-free-agent-buyout-nets
     
  13. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    honestly, i think it's more personal than basketball. AD liked playing with cousins, who was a poor man's gasol post-achilles.

    also, given the context, i'm guessing AD knew that howard was the only center on the roster prior to the dj signing.
     
  14. JSM

    JSM - Lakers All Star -

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  15. Chick the G.O.A.T.

    Chick the G.O.A.T. - Rookie -

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  16. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    no kidding. who's the next fall guy?
     
  17. Chick the G.O.A.T.

    Chick the G.O.A.T. - Rookie -

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    We don't have any old (we have old) unathletic guys who can't contribute so nobody
     
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  18. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i think i'm going to launch a totally unfounded campaign against anyone playing 15 mpg whom i don't like and see how everyone enjoys it.
     
  19. Chick the G.O.A.T.

    Chick the G.O.A.T. - Rookie -

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    LOL "unfounded". You should start one where your stats and arguments are the only relative points and if they argue from a different viewpoint you can say blah blah blah that's invalid because it doesn't align with my views. Oh wait...you already did that


    :Shaqlaughing 2:
     
  20. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    unfounded.

    i'll intentionally pick a player whose stats look good, too. and i'll just unload on him after every loss. even if all the big three are in streetclothes. hopefully, it can be a decorated veteran player who's never been a problem anywhere.

    i'm going to love it.
     

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