Lakers VS Slippers Discussion

It's impossible for me to imagine the Clippers making the conference finals because they are the Clippers and the Clippers don't make conference finals. What concerns me is that our roster will take some adjusting. Like @LakerFanIam said, we overloaded on guards and we don't have a defensive wing player, or at least one that can carry heavy minutes in that role. Unfortunately, I have more faith in the Clippers FO with the Logo there to make the necessary mid-season adjustments to their roster, than I do our FO to make whatever changes we need here. That hasn't been a strong suit of ours in a long time. Plus, for all the injury prognosticating we're doing on the Clippers side, we really have no idea at what level Boogie is going to end up by the playoffs.

I always have faith in the Lakers and I presume the Clippers will Clip. But right now, I'm not so confident the Clippers have more to worry about than we do.

 

The way I see it, there are 4 factors (besides health of AD & LBJ) that will be major factors in how the Lakers fare this Season.
Green & Kuz playing at a high level, and Bradley & Cousins getting back to form.
I easily see at least 2 of those 4 things happening.. & that bodes well for us. We're deep & have arguably the best duo in the League.
I'm feeling very optimistic.


Oh.. & Cluck the Flippers.

 

That ignores not having Magic around anymore allegedly / likely ignoring in some decisions the collective mind of our scouting and coaching consensus of College, G-League, International and NBA players. There were a few reported. Point being we are Strong in our basketball and scouting department.

 

I'd take the Lakers big 2 over the Clippers simply because they mesh better. Kawhi and PG are great players, but they are essentially playing the same position, with a lot of identical skill sets. All four have had injury issues, but LeBron has been durable for a long time. Was last year a fluke or a sign of things to come? Hopefully the former, but we have to wait and see. Speaking of getting older, Lou Williams will be 33. At some point he will start declining, as all smallish guards do(Iverson, CP3,), and when they decline, they decline hard. If that happens this year, what happens to their depth? Harrell will work hard, but will simply be overmatched. Shamet still has a lot to prove. Beverly? Talk about getting injury prone. Guy plays so hard he will break down at some point during the season. And Zubac. Nice kid, but he is gonna be in way over his head, I will probably begin to feel sorry for him.

Lots of reasons there on why we're gonna beat them. But the single, most important reason why they will lose? They're the Clippers, the NBA's version of Murphy's law. They take CP3 from the Lakers and form Lob City, only to never get past the second round of the playoffs. They try to get their PR department to design for them a brand spanking new mascot for a hipper, cooler image, and they get.. Steve Ballmer, I mean Chuck the Condor. Just when you think they have figured things out, they clippered themselves. So yeah, they will more than likely find a way to eff this up too.

 

way too much power in the West to make this a foregone conclusion for either team IMHO. Health of the stars will play a vital factor for each team. Scrubs carrying the Clips down the stretch is different than for a whole season. Without Tobias Harris all year, they don't have the same record IMHO.

However, if we end up in a dream scenario where both teams get there, I hope we rip/create a new ahole for the tenants.

:Joshharthearthands:

 

I like our "intangibles"
Everyone was quick to forget how Kang. Took a team of nobodies to the finals 2 years ago.. he got alot of respect from me for that even before he was a Laker. PG has been known to choke in the show. Kang thrives in it.. I'm sure he'll raise brows game up too.

Plus.. they have just as much injury proneness.. I know that's not a word.. as we do..

They talk about their defense.. but ours isnt too shabby and as mentioned before. They're relying on zu.. inside? Good luck with that.. we are going to bully them down low

 

If we can move any of them for Iggy, I'll do it in a heartbeat.

 

I've lost a lot of respect for that other franchise (Did I really ever have any tho doh?). Cheaters never prosper in the end, and if you have to buy off the media in order to have a favorable narrative, it's just not good business. While I don't care to wish ill on others, this type of behavior will shine through in other parts of their business eventually, and their true character will show through. They won't be able to hide it when it's coming from the top.

I would not be surprised if both of those two new guys choose new addresses in 2 years. Let's see how great the new organization is under a guy willing to play dirty and do anything and everything to get what he wants. He's the reason people don't trust the super wealthy. He doesn't think the normal rules of engagement and respectable business practices apply to him.

We'll see how that works out for him in the end.

 

I do get that slimy CEO/drug lord vibe from Ballmer, the kind where he thinks he can buy any one and pay off the cops. He's like that guy in Lethal Weapon 2 screaming "diplomatic immunity". I still can't get over that video of Blake Griffin blowing him off( not blowing him, that's a Doc Rivers video )

 

I agree on the strength of our scouting department. But that doesn't mean our FO is focused on making the necessary mid-season tweaks to our roster.

 

I'd assume they're on this 24/7 110%. As was promised when the PBO and GM were hired following Jim and Mitch exits.

 

I'll try to look at this objectively and without bias - based off past seasons form. I think this is a super interesting question and asks all kinds of stylistic questions. I think I might break this up into 3 posts, what I think on the clippers, what I think on the lakers and stylistically how we should match up with strengths and weaknesses.

First of all here is the probable line up for the clippers:

Beverley/Williams
Shamet/Robinson
Leonard/Harkless
George/Green
Zubac /Harrell

Shooting: They project to be a great shooting team with Beverley, Shamet, Leonard, George and Green all around the 40% mark from 3 - not to mention Williams is a good 3pt shooter and Harkless is very streaky but has 2 seasons at or near 40% on 2 attempts so you don't know what you'll get from him on that front. Lastly Robinson was an elite shooter in college - 41% on 6 attempts - so he should get adjusted to the NBA 3 pt line sooner rather than later. They have 4 great shooters in the starting line up with another 2, 3 or 4 good shooters off the bench - depending on Robinson's adjustment and what Harkless does this year (could be another 20% from 3 season or another 37%+). They will be excellent here.

Defence: They project to be a great defensive team, Beverley, Leonard and George are all first team NBA defence guys. It is easily one of the most impressive perimeter defensive teams assembled. They have the ability to play guys like Lou and Shamet for the offensive bump while hiding them on the team's weakest players. On top of that they've got Harkless who is a positive defender on the wing, Robinson who projects to be a good defender, as well as Green who has shown himself to be effective in certain match ups. Where they will struggle is at their bigs rotation, although both Zubac and Harrell are positive defenders, they just don't have the size across the PF and C positions to match up effectively with a large team like us (more on that later). Zubac in particular gave the team a really nice defensive bump last season and if he improves as a rim protector might leave them as a really tough defensive team.

Depth: Lou and Harrell were a devastating tandem last year off the bench. They combined to average 53 points off the bench and were unstoppable on their way to both being finalists for the 6th man of the year award. They even won their team games with their bench play against GSW in the playoffs vs Curry, Klay, Durant and Green. Add to that the defence and shooting of Robinson, Harkless and Green and you have some really nice pieces. Especially once you stagger the bench and starting lineups, surrounding the Lou and Harrell pick and roll with spacing from a mix of Beverley, Shamet, Leonard, George and Green will be a great weapon. Leonard and PG will undoubtably rest over the season and expect Williams and Harrell to have more usage during those times and the team to ride them to some strong statement wins.

Star-Power: Leonard & George. Not much to say expect it's a great perimeter tandem, it's no surprise everyone has been raving on about them being the best perimeter duo since MJ & Pippen. They're both all NBA defensive guys, top catch and shoot players that can also create for themselves fairly well. Their weakness is their health and can they take a long season and a tough western conference playoffs run. In the regular season, the clippers should be happy with a 4th seed and to give their stars plenty of rest/load management - whatever the cool term is right now, but come playoff time, losing one of these guys will leave their season in tatters.

Weakness: Big man rotation, a rotation of Zubac, Harrell and Green just won't work against a team with a big front court rotation. In particular, any teams with a strong PF will get a mismatch every time. This means Harrell will adjust to play PF role harming some of their spacing. Alternatively they could try to throw George and Leonard against a big PF, but they're giving up a few inches, 30-40 pounds and opening themselves up to real injury.

I expect the clippers to use the regular season to gel and to win a ton of games based off their shooting, defence and depth alone. However I don't expect them to be in the top 2 seeds unless they really click. However, I expect them to be a really dangerous team come the playoffs and one we are likely to meet if we want to get out of the West.

 

Part 2: Lakers time

I figure we'll have some semblance of the following:

Rondo/Cook/Caruso
Green/Bradley/KCP
Lebron/Dudley
Davis/Kuzma
Cousins/McGee

I imagine we'll also try a Bradley/Green/Lebron/Davis/Cousins lineup and variations. We are a bit heavy at the guard position, a bit light at SF but one of the strongest at the big man side of things.

Shooting: We've improved our shooting since last season. Cook & Green are legitimate 40% guys, Dudley and Bradley also project to be around that 37%+ range. Then the great hope, Caruso, shot lights out last season and it'll be interesting to see whether he can replicate that, potentially he might move into a legitimate 37-40% range. KCP, Cousins and oddly enough Rondo all should be a serviceable at around 35%. We aren't the strongest of shooting teams, but we can play a Cook, Bradley, Green, Lebron & Davis lineup that should have some decent enough spacing. I would of liked us to get a few extra shooters but I think every team says that. Potentially we have 2 good shooters in the starting line up, 2-3 good shooters off the bench. We'll have much improved spacing and shooting.

Defence: First things first, Davis and Green are elite defenders, we might be able to blow up a lot of teams PNR with them as the primary defenders. A lot of teams run the high PNR with 3 shooters to get mismatches. We might be able to ride Davis like Hakeem and not send any help defence and improve our 3pt defence by staying back on shooters this way - so I'm really excited for that. On top of that Cousins and McGee can really go about setting up an elite big man defence, both of these guys are positive defenders. Vogel will get the most out of our bigs on the defensive end, and I fully expect us to keep a lot of players out of the paint and shooting some terrible numbers. There will be few teams with as good of a defensive big man rotation as us.

On the perimeter, Green is a great defender and can be used against the best opposing wing. Bradley, depending on how he comes back (I'm hoping Boston level if he can clear up his health) can be a great auxiliary guard defender and go against the best PG/SGs on other teams. As an aside, Caruso also showed some nice effort on this end last year, I hope he works his way into the rotation on the back of this and his shooting. Defensively we should be vastly improved off the back of Vogel's coaching alone, add in to that Green, Bradley, Davis and Cousins to go along with McGee and Caruso and we should be a great defensive team. I expect us to be a top 10 team here.

Depth: We improved a lot on this front too. I think we will have a combination of Rondo/Cook and Caruso at the PG, Bradley or KCP at SG, Dudley and Kuzma at the forwards and one of McGee or Cousins at Center. That's a really nice bench. We don't have the explosive scoring of the Lou & Harrell duo, but Kuzma can get 15-20 off the bench and we got some nice pieces alongside him to go against other second units. I fully expect us to have one of the better benches in the league.

Star-Power: Obviously we are really strong here. How quickly people forget Lebron's last playoff run where he just torpedo'd teams out of the water and crushed the East. In what world can a player average 27/8/8 and have everyone saying he fell off. Sure he doesn't have the same tank, we can't pencil him in as a strong defender and he has to load manage ALOT in the regular season, but come playoffs, I take Lebron over anyone still. Kawhi has a degenerative quad and although he was incredible in the playoffs, he limped his way to a championship and old PG, well he breaks down every year - give me Lebron in the playoffs for another 2 years. On top of that we have arguably the best big man in the game in AD. If he can be Hakeem on defence and get his 25 on offence, we have an amazing tandem built to play together in the same vein as Kobe & Shaq. On top of that we have a trump card that no other team in the west (apart from GSW) have, we have the potential to have a 3rd star emerge. Cousins at his peak is a top 10 player, if we get 80% of that we may have an amazing 3rd option - I'm not banking on this, however if it happens, our chances at a championship vastly improve.

Weakness: We have a few major weaknesses. Like the clippers, we have health to worry about. AD isn't the healthiest of stars - you can pencil him in for 65 games a season - that's a lot of load management. Lebron, who has historically been an ironman playing deep every season and giving you 75+ games a season had his first major injury last year. At 35 in the new season, he is closer to the finish and the mileage has really accumulated - he is at the point that all other star players before him have fallen off the cliff. Bradley has been riddled with injuries for the last 3 years, Rondo always misses his fair share of time and Cousins hasn't recovered from his achilles injury yet and he may never. In a worst case scenario we could be rolling out a Caruso/Green/Kuzma/Dudley/McGee lineup if everything goes wrong (the same holds for the Clippers with PG, Kawhi and Lou all being out).

Another weakness is our lack of creators. We've signed a lot of guards with no real creators among them. After Lebron who are we meant to run the team through. Rondo or Cousins? A secondary play maker is a real weakness, and getting Iggy on board could help a lot with this. Lastly, we need one more SF defender to match up against wing heavy teams, we're going to have a hard time defending a strong forward rotation. We missed out on Ariza and DeMarre Carroll and got KCP instead which is frustrating, but trading for someone like a Robert Convington would be perfect with his 3&D, alternatively I'd look if OKC would be willing to part with Ferguson - or ideally see if Iggy becomes available. I'd even take Lance back here.

I expect us to mirror the clippers in a lot of ways - we'll be a top team come the playoffs but maybe not necessarily a top 2 seed. We need to conserve our health for that gruelling western run. There is a chance we meet the Jazz, Clippers and Denver to just make it out of the west, and then we would have the pleasure of meeting the 76'ers or Milwaukee in the finals after we are well and truly banged up. That would undoubtedly be one of the toughest playoff runs of Lebron's career. So health is going to be key for us, because we have all the pieces (apart from a good backup SF) to be champions next season.

 

Now the fun part, how do we match up against the clippers. A lot is going to come down to the stylistic differences between the two teams. What's so interesting about this is the clear ways we can attack and defend one another.

The clippers are going to be an aggressive perimeter defending team. They'll have a lot of shooting but their offence will run through a lot of Lou, PG and Kawhi taking turns with isolation plays in the half court.

The lakers are going to be a very strong rim protecting team. We'll operate Lebron ball and spam the high PNR with Lebron & AD/McGee. We'll also play some inside out ball with Cousins.

There is no one on the Clippers that can stop our big man rotation of AD/Cousins/McGee, Lebron can just spam the high PNR with any one of them and have the rest of the team shoot 3's off the mismatches created by doubling the roller and if they don't double AD, he'll score more often that not on the roll or pop. Where we might hit problems is the spacing we have with AD at PF and McGee/Cousins at C. If Cousins gets his 3pt shot back, this is a non issue. However if we can't, we will have spacing issues unless you want to play Dudley as the PF who gives up so much on the defensive end (Kuzma isn't much of a spacer at the moment). We could potentially go small with Lebron at PF, and play Cook, Bradley and Green at the 1 to 3 and I see this being experimented with, but it takes away from our advantage of size and plays into the hands of the Clippers who would meet that with a Beverley, Harkless, George, Leonard and Harrell lineup. We have to make the size work because we can't match up against them on the wing - more times than not we'll lose that battle.

Just like they can't stop us inside with our size, we don't have the defenders to stop Lou, PG and Leonard in isolation consistently. Lebron isn't the defender he was and with him being the lead playmaker and the usage that comes with that, he just won't have the energy to defend PG & Leonard play after play. Green can take one of them, but we don't have someone to slow down the other. This is where one more SF defender would be really useful, I'd go as far as to package Kuzma, a 1st and any other asset to try and pry Covington over (before GSW trade for him) - I'm that worried about it. Alternatively, I'd look deeply into how to get Iggy on this team: a Bradley, Green, Iggy, Lebron & AD lineup can defend anybody including the Clippers.

It's a real tough question to answer, what's more valuable, our interior or their perimeter defense? Our size or their shooting and isolation? We both have good depth, but it's mainly going to come down to can we make them play big by putting Harell at the PF or will they make us play small with Lebron and AD at the PF and C? So much of this matchup for me will come down to how Cousins/McGee can play off of Lebron and AD.

Whichever team imposes their will on the other will come out on top over a 7 game series. The regular season is going to be so crucial to feel out how we match up against one another and to experiment what works.

 

Yeah, I expressed my skepticism about that before. Kawhi/PG were never known for their passing ability. In fact, they are both below average play-makers. Their numbers are a good indication of that, with Kawhi being a career 2.4 assist per game guy, and PG not much better at 3.3 apg. That's staggeringly low considering their high usage rate. I find that's the biggest difference between those two and the MJ/Pippen and Lebron/Wade duos. Those guys were all elite facilitators averaging 5-8 apg throughout their career.

 

Great posts Svtzr.

I think the Clippers lineup will be this one though . PG13 doesn't want to play and check the opponent PF since his Pacers days.

Beverley
PG13
Kawhi
Harkless
Zu

 

Clippers will lose to Utah in WC semi finals.They never were playing in WCF ,and they never will
P.S. I still think that Griffin ,De Andre and CP3 were more talented than this year roster.