Kobe Bryant Discussion: Mamba Out!

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by DjBelvedere, Oct 5, 2014.

  1. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    @Weezy honestly he hasn't really taken that many bad shots lately. Maybe one or two heat checks after consecutive makes.
     
  2. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    Kobe hasn't been in "on-mode" since right before he went down with his achilles injury. This isn't a challenge for him to fight through, this is the end, that's why he's retiring. The only option I see for him is to drop his minutes to 25 per game max, and to start playing smarter. If he plays less per game and picks his spots more, plays team ball more like he has in the maybe 4 good games he's had this season, he can still finish on a good note IMO.
     
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  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. This is not a slump, this is the end of his career. He can't shoot through this. He needs to accept his limitations and pick his spots. Last game was a good step in the right direction, but not at 32 minutes per game.
     
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  4. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I feel that is for Kobe to decide. He deserves to go out on his own terms. If he feels like he can play better, who are we to script the ending for a legend?
     
  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    The team who is paying him.
     
  6. wallangong

    wallangong - Lakers 6th Man -

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    for Kobe to decide? let's say his shooting woes continue, how long do we let him decide? i love Kobe. i never doubted any shooting slumps in the past. this isn't a slump; father time just caught up to him. we want him to play smart and maybe have one or 2 "Kobe" moments per game, but even that seems myopic at this point.
     
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  7. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, my script would be better. Right now he's Fantastic Four out there. I'd at least have him at Ant-Man.
     
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  8. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I have no problem with fans wanting him to play smarter. But Kobe isn't capable of that. You guys know that. Mitch certainly knows that, being quoted "I gave up 15 years ago"

    So why throw him under the bus now? Calling him selfish and not caring like he's a different person now? He's exactly the same person. That is what I have issues with.
     
  9. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    See I don't understand that at all. You're telling me a student of the game and a brilliant basketball mind can't figure out he's playing the worst basketball he's ever played in his life and he can't figure out how to fix it? He's too dumb to play smart?

    No. He's too stubborn to play smart. He's actively deciding not to do what's best for the team in an effort to... I don't even know? Re-live some sort of glory days? Run some sort of experiment on exactly how far he can push a worn-down body? Ludicrous.
     
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  10. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    Did we not know this for years? Is this something new? Asking him to change his playing style and asking him to change his personality are two distinct propositions.
     
  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah I'm done with this. If this version of Kobe is good for you, then that's your opinion and you and Kobe can enjoy that opinion.

    I will continue to hold him to a higher standard than 30% shooting and his worst assist rate since 1999.
     
  12. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    There is no trying to reason why Kobe is playing this way. He CAN play smarter, we have seen it, right now it's that he won't. I can't reason why he's playing this way though. You can't really say it's because he wants to score as many points as possible on his way out, because he's shooting so poorly he's not scoring a lot of points. You can't say it's because he's trying to shoot out of it, because he's said he doesn't have his legs and he knows he physically can't do the same things anymore.

    He's said this season is about developing the youth, for the future of the franchise, but his style of play isn't helping them or teaching them anything valuable at all. You can see that from Russell's comments on playing with the bench last night. So he's certainly not playing for that reason. Only reason I can see for playing this style of ball is that he doesn't really care. Knows the team stinks, is going to put up shots for fun (to him), and what he thinks the fans want to see (and apparently some do for some reason).

    That's not saying Kobe doesn't care about the youth, or doesn't want to win when he goes out there, or doesn't care about the Lakers. I'm saying he doesn't really have cares or worries right now, he's on the way out so it doesn't really matter what happens, in that sense he doesn't care. The team isn't competing for a title or even the playoffs, and he won't be here next season, so I don't see a lot for Kobe to care about, he's collecting his last checks, adding a bit to his number totals, and saying goodbye to fans. I guess it kinda sucks that this is hurting his career wins %, shooting %, and scoring average, but again, he doesn't seem to care. Sorry to keep repeating that phrase, but some here don't seem to get how it's being used about Kobe, trying to make it clearer.
     
  13. Doc Brown

    Doc Brown - Lakers Starter -

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    I'm a fan of the Lakers first and foremost. When someone is messing up my Lakers regardless if they are in their first or 20th season I'm going to "hate" on them.

    I've given Kobe plenty of praise over the years and I've give him plenty of "hate" over the years as well. He's not above "hate" to me.

    How can I "hate" someone if I'm calling it like I see it whether that be praise of criticism? Sounds more like neutral to me, but to each their own I guess.

    If that labels me a "hater" so be it , the next time he does good I'll say it and when he messes up I'll say that too. Been doing it for 15 years now, not changing now or for any current or future players.
     
  14. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

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    I don't buy that Kobe has the same mindset and we shouldn't expect him to change now, and here's why.

    Mindset 1. Kobe taking bad shots or playing out of the system for the first 17 years was because he honestly thought those shots were better than his teammates' open shots, and many times his ego was validated by his superhuman play. That was his mindset.

    Mindset 2. Now, he KNOWS his shots aren't better than his teammates shots. He KNOWS his limitations now but continues to shoot like he doesn't know his limitations. Why? It's very simple. It's his last season. The team isn't expected to win any given night and he's come to peace with that. There's no accountability to his shot selection. And, it's a personal challenge to see what he can still do, which is completely independent of winning or losing. It's all about him at the expense of the team; his battle with himself, his proof to himself, his ego when the crowd cheers because they know it's the last time they'll see him.

    If his chucking mindset this year was about ultra-competitiveness and trying to win at all costs with the underbite, I'd say his mindset has not changed. But, obviously it has.
     
  15. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree with realdeal. Kobe is capable of playing smart because that's what he did last night. Why he waited until Byron benched the kids to do it, I don't know and it frustrates me.

    Last night was the kind of game he should have been playing since the season started: only four three pointers, the rest was mid-range and in. The results: 7 of 12 from mid-range and in, and predictably 25% on threes. But limiting those threes was absolutely key. He played to his strengths not his weaknesses. Oh yeah, and 8 rebounds and several assists.

    So that's proof he CAN play smart.
     
  16. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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  17. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Good piece by Plaschke, and I don't say that lightly. I've been a vocal critic of Plaschke's writing because he just doesn't know basketball, IMO. But I do think he's a great human interest sports writer and this one he nailed.
     
  18. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think I've ever read anything by Plaschke better than that. Brutal, but true (although I think he meant Washington Generals?), he's suggests the most obvious and simple solution so many here and everywhere else have said, and I don't see how Kobe can't see that would benefit him. Remember that article from preseason, one scout or GM said the Lakers have created a monster here...yup.
     
  19. Kou

    Kou - Lakers 6th Man -

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    Great article, basically sums up what the majority of us (I hope) are feeling.

    The quote of how he should be letting go gracefully which would give him even more legend status but instead he's gripping the ball tighter also nailed it.
     
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  20. Daloyalfan18-Brandon

    Daloyalfan18-Brandon - Rookie -

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    So let's just get rid of Byron and make Kobe the coach. Also I think this shows that Kobe is still trying to help the young guys, he gets caught up at times but I still believe that he wants the young ones to succeed once he's gone.
     

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