Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by karacha, Aug 3, 2021.
And drink your Metamucil!
We will have to hook Nunn up with Sally Fields!!
I know I've said this before, but Nunn is a really solid pickup. He is good enough to be a starter in this league.
I'm hoping the three young guys can carve out their roles coming off the bench and we got Nunn, Monk, THT at the 1, 2 and 3 with Melo and DJ at the 4 and 5. It means two of Ellington, Ariza and Bazemore get benched (probably Ellington and Ariza). It also means that THT has developed his ability to be a lockdown defensive player at the 3, while Nunn and Monk are shooting lights out.
It's an interesting bench unit. All three young guys can create, Melo can create for himself too, DJ can finish lobs. Just have to see how they mesh on the defensive end.
One thing to think about here too is it's hard to shoot a decent percentage when your minutes are all over the place. Most guys get into a rhythm and shoot a better percentage with consistent minutes. Vogels got his work cut out for him this year and I think this will show if he is truly an elite coach or just a pretty good one.
I actually think the opposite. This season likely won’t show a lot of Vogel’s coaching prowess. He’ll get our defence right and Russ, Lebron and AD will win a ton of games. Between those two things we’ll be a top 5 team.
We have a ton of shooters in Nunn, Monk, Bazemore, Ariza and Melo and we’ll just play whoever shoots well. And lastly our vets of Rondo, Ariza, Melo Howard and Jordan are all experienced enough to do their job.
The only way I see this team proving anything with Vogel is if he gets us as a top offence and defence and we just demolish everyone.
All I can say is I hope you're right
Personnel management is a huge part of coaching. This will be his toughest test of his career so far. Several worthy people will not get regular minutes.
Seems like a real negative way to look at it and taking a lot for granted that you won’t even credit him for. Complete turnover of the roster with a much older roster including the loss of two proven very good - excellent wing defenders. As sirron notes above personnel management and chemistry building and sustaining during the coming tough times of the long season, on top of that is fortunately one of his strengths as well, considering the losses from his coaching staff also that were with him for 2 years, as well as Dudley who was a huge help in that area.
Get it it all done …. again …. Frank, but don’t expect any atta boys?
Sometimes tone and intention don't translate well on the internet. It wasn't my intention to not give Vogel credit or pose things in a negative way.
I genuinely like Vogel as a coach, he reminds me of a younger Coach Pop in some ways. His Pacers teams were a testament to how good a coach he can be, the difference in talent was vast but they pushed the Heat - the best team in the league - to the brink multiple times. This was all on the back of Frank's key attributes. He is a great defensive coordinator, good man manager that can mesh egos and volatile players, he can create belief in the team concept and is generally a very likeable guy to lead your team.
But at the same time, talent wins championships. And Vogel has been given one of the most talented squads in the league (potentially a 30 team ever assembled?). We have Lebron, AD and Russ with a load of impactful veterans and a few talented youngsters ready to contribute. We have impact players at every position and can play big, small, fast, slow, powerful or with finesse.
Personnel management is huge. But we have the added benefit that all our stars are team orientated players that build strong camaraderie wherever they go. History shows us that none of Russ, Lebron or AD will blow the season or team up because they're all desperate to win. Our vets in Rondo, Ellington, Ariza, Melo, Howard and Jordan have all show they can take smaller roles and still contribute to team success and harmony. And does anyone think one of Nunn, Monk, THT or Bazemore are influential enough to impact the season if they get angry that they aren't getting enough minutes?
So my point stands, I think the talent level of this squad means we probably won't be able to judge how good a coach Frank is unless we don't make it out of the first round or unless we hum to perfection and demolish everyone. There is probably more than a handful of coaches that could win with our roster. I think the same can be said for the Nets - if they make the finals, does that mean Nash is an incredible coach?
Now if Vogel can win back to back, that would make 3 in 4 years with a lot of roster changes and difficulties and I think one has to argue that Frank's coaching added to success in a clear way.
You make great points but even the Heat didn't win in LeBrons first year there because meshing a new team together isn't just a matter of piecing together talent. It's buy in, it's sacrifice, it's comradery, it's self belief and faith in your teammates and coaching staff. We got smashed by the Pistons when we had the more talented team, because they were a better team that understood their system and played it to the fullest. That was a well coached team. Talent alone doesn't win anything at this level. If we win this year Vogel will have cemented his legacy without winning a back to back.
The heat is a fine point, but I would counter with the - Pierce, Garnett, Allen - C Bags that won their first year.
On top of that, it’s not like our team hasn’t had experience playing together. THT, Rondo, Lebron, Ad and Howard are all back from the bubble. Melo and Westbrook have played together in OKC. Ariza and Howard played together, Bazemore played with Melo, Ellington and Bazemore played for us before. THT and Nunn are old college teammates. Many of them have played together at the Olympics. Monk is really the only player with no affiliation to us or one another.
Does anybody know if the Lakers have Nunn's bird rights? How much will we be able to offer him in the off-season?
no bird rights, need to be here 3yrs 1st i think
Dang, so he could end up being a one and done with us. If he starts the year as a starter and gets around 15ppg, I could see him being packaged with Westbrook and flipped for something like Lillard or LaVine.
They’re not flipping Russ, what a bad look. Unless maybe the organization hated that outfit he was just seen in as much as I did and now doesn’t care.
I would not go as far as to say they are not flipping Russ. I mean, we don't even know yet how the three stars would mesh. But, I am optimistic that they will. I don't think it's a bad look if they flipped him. I mean, they would be getting Lillard in return for crying out loud.