Gary Payton: Kobe's Mentality Hurting The Lakers

Stats aren't the only form of an example. You can give an example of a game.

And no, that's not what the stat says. Things aren't always so black and white. The stat says that the team sucks when Kobe's on the floor, but that doesn't mean that we're losing because of Kobe. You have to look at who he's playing with, which is why I said our starters are the ones putting us in a hole. The stat also says that we aren't being destroyed when Kobe's off the floor. In other words, our bench usually do a good job of keeping up in their limited minutes. This has a lot to do with Ed Davis and probably Ellington too.

 

@thkthebest I don't find entertainment in Kobe taking a ton of shots. I think honestly that it's the best chance for this team to win.

I have asked a million times, but who else should shoot the ball? Most of these players won't make a shot that isn't a layup.

 

I agree that Kobe has to do more with this team, but he should pick his moments. He can't be so impatient with a team with this little talent.

Right now, with the exception of Price and Clarkson, Kobe is shooting the worst percentage out of all rotation players. I'd rather have him play like he normally does and have his percentage gravitate back up to 45%, even if that means that the other players are going to start shooting worse. Giving other players more responsibility (not Wes though, please not him) can lower their shooting percentage, but they're also more engaged in the game. Or, as Lin put said, he's not trying to attack all the time because he's trying to get others more involved so that they're more engaged and that they perform better. I think it would be better in the long run anyway. If they're all just going to watch Kobe, we'll make no progress and they'll never understand what their role should be.

 

No doubt Scott needs to do better. I already said he should shoulder most of the blame for this.

 

Couldn't agree more with this. This isn't all on Kobe, it's a combination of things. Still needs to be said IMO. Other teams out there suck, but they still run a system, a team offense, and try to develop some players. We aren't doing this with a system that's players bringing the ball up court, passing it to Kobe, and watching him. We're losing if he takes 30 shots, or if we run a slightly more team offense, so I'd kinda rather watch the team build something, anything, gotta start somewhere for life after Kobe.

I love Kobe, but personally I'm not in this as a Lakers fan to watch him try and climb the all time scorers list as quickly as possible and possibly burn out or get injured. I want to see the Lakers as a whole try and develop anything here, even if small. And speaking of loving and hating Kobe, when did criticism become "hate". I've never loved to watch a player more than Kobe, I have been since I was 12. I think after watching 18 seasons I know his game pretty well and can offer some fair criticisms. The point of a forum is discussion, not a fan of being told that having differing opinions is hating. Also, no one here has been personally attacked, and if anyone seriously has, feel free to bring it to the staff's attention with a specific example at any time.

 

I just don't agree man.

There's not much there for these guys to develop. At least the ones he's playing with. Outside of Lin in the starting lineup, those guys are what they are. Wesley is always going to be what he is. Boozer and Hill are what they are. So who is Kobe limiting in terms of development? In the starting lineup I think Boozer averages the right amount of touches. Hill is always engaged no matter what. So the only guy who maybe isn't engaged 100% is Lin and Kobe is pushing him to do more.

Guys with room to develop and grow on this team are few and far between at the moment. Davis, Clarkson, and... that's pretty much it. Price is 31 and isn't growing anymore. Xavier, Kelly, Young, and Randle are hurt. Sacre stinks and his development is either too slow to matter or has stopped. Maybe Ellington fits that mold, but he's gone right now.

As for being more engaged, if the starting lineup isn't engaged that's honestly on them. They're professionals who have been around the block. They should know by now to stay engaged at all times. Off the bench guys are a fair point, but there's really not that many guys with room to grow that I feel Kobe is holding back right now.

I think Kobe taking a ton of shots is fine, but it's on Byron to figure out how to get those shots to be better shots for Kobe. I've been begging for him to come off screens. Byron hasn't done a great job so far, but we're healing up so hopefully he gets it together more with Young and Kelly and Henry healthier.

 

I know where you're coming from. This team does just suck so much that it's frustrating to watch.

But it's also not necessarily individual development as it is a team development. Lin isn't really going to improve from game 1 of this season to game 82, but he did say what he's still trying to do is find his role/niche on this team. It's like trading for a player. That player isn't going to improve individually, but he'll improve in the sense that he'll start understanding how he fits on this team.

Being engaged is just a human nature thing imo. You're right that they are paid professionals, but this is also a long season. It's like going to work. I'm currently at work, but I'm not working. I'm posting on this forum. Lol. I have things to do, but lets say that I get to personally make decisions on the future of my company. I get to build something, create something, decide something. I'd be more engaged. Players know that this is a long season. They might stand around and lose focus. Give them the ball, and that focus comes back.

 

I'm with thk on this.

It doesn't stop with the development of this current group of guys either. The bigger question is will Kobe being in total chuck mode hurt our chances of landing a free agent. Let's face it. If you're a stud and you're looking at coming to the Lakers and you see a bunch of box scores where Kobe has more shots than the rest of the starters combined, you are going to avoid that situation. And please don't give me the line that, "Well, we don't won't that guy since he's a coward." or "Kobe will pass him the ball if he's good." If you are a star player, you probably know the game and can see the trends going in the NBA. and the current trends show that hero ball isn't working any more.

 

Maybe. But you have to admit that Lin, Boozer and Hill are all better players than they are being allowed to showcase.

 

Wellll... I don't know that I'd go that far. Lin, absolutely. Boozer, eh, I think this is as good as he is now. Hill, I think is playing above expectations and pretty much as good as he can with his skills. Averaging almost 14 points, 9 boards, and a block per game. Now, if you're saying they could be USED better in this horrible offense, then nevermind, I agree.

 

That's kind of what I meant. I just don't get how people are so quick to make any excuse they can think of for Kobe. The truth is we are 1-8. Kobe is our supposed best player. If Kobe was the player he was in 2006, we are probably close to .500 because Odom, Smush, Kwame and Walton isn't that different than our current supporting cast.

But Kobe isn't close to that Kobe anymore. But people are OK with him hoisting up shots like he is. If he's 2006 Kobe, I agree he should just go for it. But he just isn't close to that guy. He's NOT dominant. Scoring 39 on 37 shots isn't amazing. Lots of players can do that. People want to make excuses for this guy. "He's all alone out there." How many dreadful performances does he need to have to where Kobe ceases to be a warrior going against the world, and he becomes just another mediocre player on a team of mediocre players who just happens to have the green light to fire at will without recourse?

He's shooting below 40 percent. Will it ever be OK to call this guy out without being chastised as a "hater" or whatever?