Eminem Thread

I’m biased towards Em over mgk? Damn right I am. The question is if i am unfairly biased and that answer would be no. mgk hasn’t done anything. I just don’t think you talk s*** to the one that you bit off of to make you. mgk is white and got his style from Em, and diddy was cashing in on that. That’s about it. If you like his song or his music in general then cool. I don’t.

But my post is not even about mgk’s music, it’s about respect. If you took your style from Em, who paid his dues and created the image and made the style of that type of rapper acceptable, then show respect and go after someone else because with this talent gap, all mgk can do is troll Em for likes.

Now G-Eazy is doing it properly by going after mgk. That is the level where mgk should do battle. Em is untouchable and that’s how it should be based on his influence in the game and especially with white rappers patterning themselves after him.

 

That seems so against what Eminem himself embodies. Don’t react to someone (who apparently is holding a grudge and has tried to sink your career) that attacked you first out of “respect”? Naw, I don’t think that’s what Shady would do if the tables were turned. And again, you’re harping on respect but if you listened to the song it’s actually very respectful and aware of Eminem’s greatness and legacy.

Also again, I have never listened to MGK before. I’m just being objective. If you’re super into Eminem and want to defend him at all costs, that’s cool. That’s how I am with Kobe. But it just kinda shows that we’re not gonna be on the same page when it comes to the broader conversation of hip-hop GOATs.

 

Interesting discussion fam.

I never liked the GOAT convo and never will. Em ain't for everybody, but nearly everybody respects his skills and I think that's all HJ is saying.. the respect is there, but why be in the game if you ain't going to challenge the best. Kob went at MJ for that spot, even as a rookie/sophomore/3rd year player. Go for that top spot, otherwise why even play the game?

But Kob wasn't delusional either. He had the skills to challenge MJ. MGK's pen to Em..get gone bruh, you ain't ever going to get there...and other than being white in the rap game, y'all are "not alike"!

Also, if you had some 22 year old saying your 16 yr old daughter is hot AF and then plays it off as a joke cause he "respects" you...nah bruh, you feenin to get mercked.

I think that is what Jag meant by showing respect to Em. I know for sure that I wouldn't dare say I would want to smash my role model's under age daughter...how is that respectful? Get gone with that type of noise, clown. Till that tweet, Em hadn't even noticed MGK and why should he? MGK's diss was alright for his skill set, but dude's rap sheet is trash and shows nothing that would indicate he's built to take on Marshall.

I still think it gets interesting if a legit contender steps to Em. MGK ain't that dude. It will get interesting if Trump, Drake or Buddens responds on wax or in the Potus's case, tweet.

 

This is indeed an interesting discussion and so hopefully nothing I'm saying is gonna come across offensive. I feel like my perspective here is quite different than some of yours. As an example, I didn't grow up listening to rap. I grew up listening to System of a Down and Radiohead. Lupe and Cudi were my first exposure to Hip Hop and that was when I was in college. (Well, that's not entirely true. The Eminem Show was the first album I ever bought but after that my music tastes drifted). So I feel like I value different things in music.

And so with that said, I feel like this is a good opportunity to clarify my main point as blasphemous as it may sound.

Yes, I'm saying everyone respects Eminem's skills, as they should ... but my main gripe is that I think his skills are closer to Ray Allen than Kobe. He's historically great at one aspect of the game. He's lacking in other aspects that take away from his overall package as a musical artist. And so I've always felt his greatness has been overhyped.

 

You lost me at Ray Allen, HJ...haha.

Now if you meant Jesus Shuttlesworth, "He Got Game" Ray Allen, then yeah I can see that comparison to Em.

But I totally see the comparison to Kob.

Argued as top 5, but doesn't get the unanimous respect of GOAT or even being part of that discussion. You got "experts" saying Kobe isn't even in the "top 5 ever" discussion...Em falls in that same category in alot if these hip-hop rankings.

Em is seen as a guy that needed help from Dre, the same way Shaq/Phil was needed for Kob to get them ringsssss and why Kob didn't get as many MVPs.

Em has a relentless following of stans. I mean dude coined the term, so at the very least, in this regard there's a solid comparison between the Em and Kob here, cause them Kob stans, yeesh.

The history of rap highlights what an MC does and lyrically how he can control a crowd (ie microphone checka).

As a MC, Em kills and for that reason, his skills are Kob level. Ray Allen? Really? Ray Allen was one dimensional and kinda known just for his jumper. He doesn't sniff top 5, let alone top 20 of all time.

Em is known for more than just his pen...his delivery, cadance, flow, etc makes dude far more versatile than some one trick pony like Ray.

But I'm biased and far from the authority on this. Still, I respectfully disagree with that comparison.

 

So to clarify, I’m talking about his prowess as a “musical artist”. Not as a “MC”.

For me, being a good MC and all that entails (lyricism, delivery, cadence, flow, etc) IS just one skill in the overall package of musical artistry.

And so with that context, again I’m not just comparing Eminem to his rap contemporaries, but to all of my favorite musicians. Most of which are indie/alternative artists.

In some ways, that is like comparing apples and oranges. A rapper isn’t going to have the singing abilities as a rock artist. But it goes both ways. A rock artist isn’t going to have the MC skills as a rapper.

At the end of the day, different genres are going to have unique skillsets and different ways to use the medium. But those unique skills need to similarly serve the greater purpose of creating a piece of art that instills emotion and has something interesting to say about the human condition.

As some examples, off the top of my head here are two of my favorite “rap” songs. They’re both very different but hopefully serve as an example to clarify what I value in music:

“Runaway” by Kanye. Simple lyricism and simple instrumentals but makes me sympathize with the flaws Kanye acknowledges within himself. All capped off by creative use of vocals/auto-tune where he uses his voice to mimic a guitar solo. Song neither demonstrates “MC skills” nor “singing skills” in the traditional sense. But still great because if it’s production and raw emotion.

“Fear” by Kendrick. More of a traditional “rap” song where Kendrick is rhyming over a beat. His rap skills are good, but no phenomenal bars. But just the way the song progresses, each verse from a different perspective showing how our concept of fear develops through our life, is super interesting. From adolescent fear of being disciplined by your parents, to a teenage fear of death, to eventually a more existential fear about your legacy. And then near the end he creatively references the other tracks on the album. Again, not a showcase of his MC skills, but the way he organizes his songs/album to serve the message is in itself a great skill (one which I don’t think Eminem has).

So when Eminem uses great MC skills to talk about ... how great his MC skills are, it doesn’t really do that much for me.

For those of you who are Eminem fans, I’m guessing you might also be into Slaughterhouse. And so while I get how you might not want to listen to tear into your favorite artist, I highly recommend you check out Joe Budden’s newest podcast. Very interesting stuff.

 

I respect you taking the time out to clarify HJ. I can't argue against anything you really said.

Kanye's production is top notch...Em trying g to produce a record is a hot mess and that is why he "needs" Dre. But lyrically you can't compare the two imho.

As for Kung-fu Kenny, dude is legit and I'm so happy as a west coast guy that he represents us now. I think he has a ton of potential and I love that Fear track. I like Damn alot more than to Pimp a Butterfly. Maad city was dope AF and probably his best work to date, but that's common cause as a new artist you have no expectations heading into their first album. But on listening to it, you can see why all the westcoast OGs certified Kdot.

I like to break down bars and treat them like puzzles. Wordplay and clever a** delivery does it for me and I put that "skillset" above all else when I look at how MCs should perform for my ears. Kendrick is nice, but not on Em's level yet in terms of that particular "skillset"...but for such a young artist, his pen is legit.

It seems you don't care for what Em spits and I can actually agree with that premise, that some of it is gibberish/accents that he cleverly delivers but doesn't have much substance to.

However he does have a significant catalog of substance. Nearly all of Recovery had a ton of substance and obviously his earlier s*** as well, highlighted by songs like Stan and The Way I Am. Revival was received as a trash album, but alot thought "woke Em" wasn't the real Slum Shady, so they didn't like the substance/messages on that album.

Imho, if it has replay value, its a dope song to me and I don't need to be all up in the club to appreciate a good song (which is how most rap is judged these days). Some of Em's production is lacking, but when you get past the poor beat selection and lazy hook, there is alot he packs in with each bar...and thats what I'm looking for even with his most poorly received songs. I have to admit tho that there have been some tracks that I just don't come back to, but I'm "Offended" by those that say Revival was trash. It wasn't his best, but even his average albums are better than most.

Anyways, I heard about how Joe went in on Em on his podcast but haven't heard it the actual pod yet...I'll definitely give it a listen. Thanks for the heads up and I've been saying that MGK ain't s*** to Em....if yall really want it to get interesting, Em vs Budden would be a dope matchup on wax. That is a legit beef battle with a ton of potential.

 

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to sustain excellence for almost two decades as a songwriter/artist. Was Revival his best album? Not even close. I liked it for what it was. If you judge current Eminem against SSLP, MMLP, etc then you’re never going to appreciate his work today.

I read an article on one of those websites associated with Deadspin that trashed Em acting like his last good album was Eminem Show, trashing Kamikaze and everything in between and thats just ridiculous. I think Recovery is probably his most underrated album.

 

So I heard Joe's pod and damn he went in on Em. He definitely had some resentment towards Marshall. But if you follow Buddens track record, he's always had different beefs with rappers and record labels. He's never been happy in any of his landing spots for a duration of time...just look at all his relationships as well.

Anyways, Joe was talking pretty recklessly and I was interested to see what any of the Slaughterhouse guys said...and of course, in comes Crook to clarify alot of the stuff Joe said.

Crook isn't being disrespectful towards Joe, but he sure puts a whole lot more perspective in the blank accusations Joe made towards Em. Great listen if yall have time.



I still maintain that Em vs Joe would be a great beef...but this perception that Em is out here trying to steal material and exploit other rappers...getthef***outtahere Joey.

 

My perception of him being overhyped might play a roll. I just don't feel like he's made music that I can't stop listening too. I like most of kendricks stuff though. From your point of view what has he done that is so impactful or changed the game? What has he done that hasn't been done before? Genuine question.

 

Well I didn't say anything about his impact or claim he's done anything that hasn't been done before. But I do think that his cinematic "concept album" approach to projects is pretty unique for a mainstream rap artist and it has had some impact already. In fact I think both Cole and Logic have been influenced by this. My main point was in regards to the quality of his artistry. I think he executes multiple aspects of his craft better than anyone else currently doing it, and better than most who have ever done it before.

I think we're coming at this from different angles. For me, music having the quality of "I can't stop listening to it" is just one small criteria. Going further, even just how good the song sounds sonically to listen to is just one factor when I'm evaluating music. If one song is catchy, pleasant to listen to, repeatable, and uplifting but with nothing interesting to say. And another song is abrasive and depressing, but dense with meaning, induces emotion, and is crafted with attention to detail. I'll generally hold the latter in higher regards.

I've only watched Breaking Bad once. I'm watching an episode of Family Guy right now for probably the 10th time. Breaking Bad is infinitely better.

And so maybe we could agree to disagree since we have different perspectives here ... but sorry, from damn near any perspective I can't see how you can put Cole and Logic above Kendrick. I'm generally a Cole fan and like a few of Logic's tracks, but overall in comparison to Kendrick their music is borderline boring.

 

Shoulda never mentioned Em's daughter, only to do it again on the Rap Devil diss...now Kelly's gettin it...and so is Diddy hahaha....ironic that both them dudes is into young girls (I see you Cassie).





Hahahahaha... I'm sorry MKG, don't f*** with savages... This s*** ain't for you.



Btw, this Joyner feature's been fire!

 

So I liked this as a rap song. Some sick lines and Eminem rode the beat very well.

But didn’t really have the impact I was looking for in a diss track. He’s just saying what everyone already knew: MGK is a nobody and Em has accomplished infinitely more than he ever will.

Nothing against the song or Em though. He did what he had to, I just kinda morbidly wish he went into some more personal stuff that could legit ruin MGK’s career. As is, this whole thing is going to overall be a net benefit to MGK.

I think I was just spoiled by The Story of Adidon and was hoping this beef could deliver similar impact. In retrospect I should’ve known that would never happen.

Eminem vs. Budden on the other hand? That has the potential to be epic. Dudes are almost on the same level as lyricists and seem to have some real personal disdain for each other at this point.

 

@Helljumper Something we can agree on is that Breaking Bad is the GOAT of TV drama shows.

So MGK's EP drops tomorrow and everybody assumes that there is going to be a response to Killshot on there to keep his 15 mins. running.

Either way, Killshot wasn't really as hard as I thought Em coulda came at dude, but maybe there isn't much material to really merc dude.

However there is a reason that Rap Devil was decent for MKG and had a pretty catchy beat/hook 2 days after Em's Kamikaze dropped...



If true, KeLLLs keep catching them Ls bruh and I hope Buddens comes at Em...its been a minute for good rap beef and as we've seen with how this current "beef" has broken records, the public is starving for a good one.

 

Wonder if he owns a gun.

 

Im sure he owns guns. Heck, hes pulled guns out on people numerous times