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Did We Just Start A War With Iran?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy -(FORUM CLOSED)-' started by sirronstuff, Jan 3, 2020.

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revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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Trump isn't senile.

If you want an example of senility, look at Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi.

revgen, Jan 9, 2020

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That Socialist Bernie is pretty out there too

sirronstuff, Jan 9, 2020

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Bernie isn't senile. He's just wrong.

He's also not physically healthy. He had a heart attack back in October.

revgen, Jan 9, 2020

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sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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Tim Tebow should run.

sirronstuff, Jan 9, 2020

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sirronstuff said: ↑

Tim Tebow should run.

Click to expand...

That would spawn birther conspiracy again since he was born here First Filipino born US President! Although not the 1st foreign born President of the US

KareemtheGreat33, Jan 10, 2020

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What an odd place to be born.

LTLakerFan, Jan 10, 2020

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Has the cover up begun? Iran CLEARS debris from plane crash site with bulldozers before investigators even arrive after condemning 'big US lie' they shot the jet down and insisting Tehran will 'handle' black box data

Debris from the Boeing 737 which crashed with 176 on board has been removed from the crash site in Iran

Tehran has indicated that it will not allow the US to analyse the flight recorders recovered from the plane

US, Canada and other Western countries believe the passenger plane was shot down by two Iranian missiles

Footage showed the Ukraine International Airlines jet exploding with 176 passengers and crew on board

Iran angrily denied the West's missile claims today, calling them 'psychological warfare' and a 'big lie'

By Tim Stickings For Mailonline

Published: 03:30 EST, 10 January 2020 | Updated: 13:11 EST, 10 January 2020

Iran has bulldozed the crash site where a passenger jet came down two days ago, sparking fears of a cover-up after Tehran today denied the West's 'big lie' that Iranian missiles shot down the plane.

The debris of the Boeing 737 has been removed from the crash site near Tehran before Ukrainian investigators have even arrived - leaving the site at the mercy of scavengers.

Iran says it is 'opening' the plane's black boxes today but has indicated it will not allow the US government to analyse their contents.

Washington and its allies believe that the plane was shot down by two Iranian surface-to-air missiles which were launched and detected by satellites just minutes after the airliner took off.

Footage which emerged last night showed the Ukraine International Airlines jet exploding in mid-air after it was hit, killing all 176 people on board.

It is feared that Iranian forces may have mistaken the passenger plane for a military jet, hours after Iran launched missile strikes on US bases in Iraq.

Justin Trudeau, Donald Trump and Boris Johnson have all pointed the finger at Iran as a chorus of Western countries rejected Iran's explanation of a technical failure and NATO also backed the shoot-down theory today.

Iran accused the US of waging 'psychological warfare' and inventing a 'big lie' as it denied the claims today.

The crisis forced Western planes heading to Tehran to turn around in mid-air last night, with many airlines now avoiding Iranian airspace.

America's Federal Aviation Administration had banned US airlines from flying over Iran just hours before the crash, potentially saving American lives from a misdirected shoot-down.

Visiting the crash site today, CBS reporter Elizabeth Palmer said 'virtually all pieces of the plane' had been removed with no security around the site and scavengers now scouring the remaining debris.

Bulldozers were seen at the crash site just hours after the plane came down and it is feared that valuable evidence could have been compromised or lost.

Ukraine says its investigators have been granted permission to look for missile fragments, but they were nowhere in sight by the time the debris was removed.

The Ukrainian investigators are also interested in an image which circulated on Wednesday night and appeared to show the charred remnants of a rocket, but has not yet been verified.

Tehran claims the crash was caused by a technical fault but Western governments came down firmly on the side of a shoot-down last night, saying the plane had been brought down by two Iranian missiles.

Ali Abedzadeh, the head of Iran's national aviation department, denied the allegations today at a news conference in Tehran.

'One thing is for certain, this aeroplane was not hit by a missile,' he said.

Changing Iran's story, he said the pilot had asked to turn back to the airport after the engine caught fire - although Tehran previously said the crew had not reported any problems.

The black box flight recorders are being 'opened' today but could be faulty and may be sent to Russia or Canada to be analysed, Abedzadeh said.

He said it could take one or two months to extract information from the boxes, which contain the voice and flight data recorders.

'We prefer to download the black boxes in Iran. But if we see that we can't do that because the boxes are damaged, then we will seek help,' he said.

Iran previously said it would not share the black boxes with Boeing, but today invited the company to help investigate them.

Government spokesman Ali Rabiei also invited 'all those countries whose citizens were aboard the plane' to send representatives - which does not include the US.

Dismissing the US claims, government spokesman Rabiei said: 'It is unfortunate that the psychological operation of the US government and those supporting it are adding insult to the injury of the bereaved families and victimising them for certain goals by propagating such fallacies.

'No one will assume responsibility for such a big lie once it is known that the claim had been fraudulent,' he was quoted as saying by Press TV.

Iran's ambassador to Britain Hamid Baeidinejad later bizarrely denied that debris had been bulldozed from the crash site despite the photographic evidence of bulldozers at the scene.

Speaking to Sky News, he said he was 'confident from our side that there has been no missile launched in that area at that time'.

Russia also came to the defence of its ally Iran, accusing the West of 'trying to score political points' and insisting it was too early to blame an Iranian missile.

Deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov called the assertions of a missile strike 'unacceptable' and 'at the very least indecent'.

'One shouldn't try to score political points on this horrible human tragedy. It is important to allow specialists to analyze the situation and make conclusions,' he said.

Despite Iran's attempts to freeze Washington out of the probe, US secretary of state Mike Pompeo offered American help to Ukraine in investigating the crash today.

Ukraine said it had received data from the United States that would be processed by experts, without elaborating on the nature of the data.

'Grateful for the condolences of the American people and valuable support of the US in investigating the causes of the plane crash,' Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky said. 'Information obtained from the U.S. will assist in the investigation.'

Boeing, which has been dealt another blow after two deadly crashes on its 737 Max range threw the company into crisis last year, said today it was working with US regulators as it tries to assist the investigation.

Because of US sanctions, the company will need approval from the Treasury Department to send representatives to Iran.

The Iranian denial is unsurprising and Tehran has a history of issuing such statements, including last summer when it denied involvement in mysterious attacks on Gulf shipping.

In June 2019 the Pentagon released footage of Iranian special forces removing an unexploded limpet mine from the side of a ship. Iran similarly labelled it 'psychological warfare'.

Moreover the Iranian regime, which has faced protests in recent months, will be highly reluctant to accept blame for a crash which killed dozens of its own citizens.

Justin Trudeau, who has demanded answers for the families of 63 Canadians killed in the crash, said last night he had 'intelligence from multiple sources including our allies and our own intelligence' pointing to a shoot-down.

'The evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by an Iranian surface-to-air missile,' he said, adding that the strike 'may well have been unintentional'.

'This new information reinforces the need for a thorough investigation into this matter,' he said.

'Canada is working with its allies to ensure that a thorough and credible investigation is conducted to determine the causes of this fatal crash. Canadians have questions and they deserve answers.'

Ukraine's general prosecutor has asked Canada 'to provide information available to the Canadian side that may facilitate criminal investigations' into the crash.

Donald Trump also rejected Iran's claims of a mechanical fault.

'It was flying in a pretty rough neighbourhood. Somebody could have made a mistake,' Trump told reporters at the White House on Thursday.

'I have a feeling that something very terrible happened, very devastating.'

UK prime minister Boris Johnson said there was 'now a body of information that the flight was shot down by an Iranian surface-to-air missile', saying it 'may well have been unintentional'.

'We are working closely with Canada and our international partners and there now needs to be a full, transparent investigation,' he said.

Today Britain's Foreign Office advised British nationals not to travel to Iran at all, after previously warning against non-essential travel.

'We also recommend against taking a flight to, from and within Iran,' said foreign secretary Dominic Raab.

The US State Department has already told US citizens not to travel to Iran.

Australian PM Scott Morrison said his country had 'received similar intelligence' to that which Trudeau had cited, while France has also offered help with the investigation.

NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said today he had 'no reason not to believe' the claims of US, British and Canadian intelligence.

The missile concerns were 'exactly why we need thorough investigation, that's exactly why we need to establish all the facts and that's exactly why it's so important we have full cooperation from the Iranian side in such an investigation,' he said.

The Netherlands also joined in the chorus today, as defence minister Ank Bijleveld said it was 'likely an Iranian anti-aircraft missile has led to the crash of the aircraft'.

'Unfortunately the Netherlands has experience from MH17,' he said, referring to the 2014 crash which killed 296 people including many Dutch citizens after it was shot down over Ukraine.

Satellite data detected the heat signatures of two surface-to-air missiles being launched just minutes after the Boeing 737 took off, the US government says.

That was quickly followed by an explosion, officials say, before infrared emissions from the plane showed it burning as it crashed to the ground.

Multiple videos have shown the plane already ablaze before it hit the ground.

Tehran-bound flights turned round last night after Western leaders blamed a missile strike for the crash.

With a coincidental engine failure ruled out, there are now fears that an accidental missile strike could happen again, meaning many airlines are avoiding Iranian airspace.

The FAA had banned US-based operators from the airspace over Iran three hours before the crash took place and the ban remains in force.

Austrian Airlines said it was cancelling its flight to Tehran on Friday 'due to the latest reports and the changed assessment of the security situation for the airspace around Tehran airport'.

Thursday's flight to Tehran was ordered to return to Vienna after a stopover in Sofia, the statement added.

Lufthansa - the parent company of Austrian - said its flight between Frankfurt and Tehran on Thursday had returned an hour after takeoff because of security concerns.

British Airways has also diverted flights via Egypt and Saudi Arabia to avoid Iranian airspace on the way to the Middle East.

Etihad Airlines, Qatar Airways and Emirates Airline are still using the airspace, which remains open.

Ukraine has said the plane could have been shot down by a Russian-made Tor missile, the weapon believed to have brought down MH17 in 2014.

'Undoubtedly, the priority for Ukraine is to identify the causes of the plane crash. We will surely find out the truth,' he said.

It is not widely believed that Iran shot down the passenger jet on purpose, especially because it had taken off from Tehran with 82 Iranian nationals on board.

However, tensions were at their height on Tuesday night after Iran attacked US bases and it is feared that nervous Iranian air defence forces could have mistaken the plane for a bomber.

Kyiv yesterday sent missile specialists to examine the wreckage of the Boeing jet, saying a shoot-down was one of the 'main theories'.

Questions were raised within hours of the crash when pictures showed part of the fuselage peppered with holes.

A special commission of experts sent to Tehran includes specialists who found evidence that the Russian weapon had brought down MH17.

Ukraine also referred to images which circulated on Wednesday night showing what appeared to be the charred remnants of a rocket.

The images were unverified and could be a hoax, but Ukraine said the 'information [which] has surfaced on the internet' had bolstered the missile strike theory.

Russia delivered 29 Tor-M1s to Iran in 2007, and Iran has displayed them in military parades.

Commercial flights have transponders which broadcast their identity, speed and altitude at an internationally agreed frequency. Flight 752 would have been visible on the radar screen of the Tor battery.

The US National Transportation Safety Board said late last night that it would 'evaluate its level of participation in the investigation.'

The extent of the NTSB's role could be limited by US sanctions on Iran.

The claims and counter-claims over the crash have sent tensions ratcheting up again after Iran's relatively inconsequential strikes on US bases had sparked hopes that the Middle East crisis was calming.

Iran has sent mixed signals over whether its retaliation for the death of general Qassem Soleimani is complete.

Soleimani was killed last Friday in a drone strike near Baghdad airport, where a makeshift memorial to the Quds Force commander has since sprung up.

The general was regarded as a hero by many Iranians and his death sparked a huge outpouring of public grief.

A million people are thought to have joined a funeral march in Tehran on Monday, although the proceedings descended into chaos on Tuesday when a stampede killed more than 50 people in Soleimani's home town.
Click to expand...

LINK

They're even trying to cover it up now. Some of their own citizens were on the plane.
revgen, Jan 10, 2020

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I'm amazed that people can side with Iran. Hating Trump is one thing Justifying the actions of Iran at the expense of our own country makes zero sense to me

John3:16, Jan 10, 2020

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Not sure how there isn’t a whole full fledged war literally after an American was killed and our embassy attacked... I understand war is not ideal for anyone, but what do you do when diplomacy continues to produce events like this?

davriver209, Jan 10, 2020

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Anything imaginable short of starting another and guaranteed even more horrific war with potential for nuclear escalation?

LTLakerFan, Jan 10, 2020

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It’s always the countries with oil. That’s all that really needs to be said. We know what this is really about, and lots of people will die over it while the people that benefit sit back in luxury and play with their toys, their real life game of Risk. Trump is being used as much as anyone else, he’s not the ultimate puppet-master.

Weezy, Jan 10, 2020

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it's why other countries would be happy to side with them and "help" them.

If we finish going to alternate fuel sources, those countries in the most fertile land of the world will shrivel up and die. No revenue. It could get ugly there fast.

I'm curious what the import of food what the export of oil looks like for them. When I think of most pictures I see from the region, I don't think of food growing. Could be very wrong, but in a recent report on the effect of sanctions, it appeared that US sanctions were really affecting them.

I have no idea what that entails tbh, or how many countries join in on such things. Either way, it would suck to be a citizen in a place where you are a victim of leadership's poor decisions.

sirronstuff, Jan 10, 2020

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Weezy said: ↑

It’s always the countries with oil. That’s all that really needs to be said. We know what this is really about, and lots of people will die over it while the people that benefit sit back in luxury and play with their toys, their real life game of Risk. Trump is being used as much as anyone else, he’s not the ultimate puppet-master.
Click to expand...

How is Trump being used? They attacked our embassy and killed our citizens As commander in chief, he's obligated to protect us He retaliated. After their rocket launches (and warning of us when and where) he used diplomacy, which is you believe the memes, he would never do. But he did. Which I appreciate.

Not sure what he could have done better.

John3:16, Jan 11, 2020

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Technically, he should have asked congress for authorization. Unfortunately congress wants to impeach him, and certain members of congress repeatedly leak information to the New York Times and The Washington Post, so a successful operation wouldn't happen if he informed congress.

revgen, Jan 11, 2020

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Ukraine Plane Shot Down Because of Human Error, Iran Says: Live Updates
The military said the passenger jet had been misidentified as a cruise missile flying over Tehran.

Right Now

A Ukraine Airlines executive said it was “absolutely irresponsible” that Iran did not shut its civilian airspace after striking American positions in Iraq.

Iran blames ‘disastrous mistake’ for the downing of Flight 752.
After maintaining for days that there was no evidence that one of its missiles had struck a Boeing 737-800 minutes after it took off from Tehran on Wednesday with 176 people on board, Iran admitted early on Saturday that its military had accidentally shot down the passenger jet.

The military blamed human error. In a statement, it said Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 had taken a sharp, unexpected turn that brought it near a sensitive military base.

In post on Twitter, Iran’s foreign minister, Mohamad Javad Zarif, apologized but appeared to also blame American “adventurism” for the tragedy, writing: “Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster.”

Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who had been informed about the accidental shooting down, said information should be publicly announced after a meeting of Iran’s top security body, the semiofficial Fars news agency said on Twitter.

said on Twitter that Iran “deeply regrets this disastrous mistake.”

In a statement cited by the semiofficial Fars News Agency, the president offered condolences to the victims’ families and said that “the terrible catastrophe should be thoroughly investigated.”

He added that those responsible for “this unforgivable mistake” would be identified and “prosecuted.”

But he also said that in an environment of military threats and terror by the United States’ “aggressive” government against the people of Iran, and facing the possibility of American military strikes on Iran, the armed forces made a “human mistake and misfired” and “it led to a big catastrophe and innocent people were killed.”

“This painful incident is not something we can easily overcome,” he added, saying that was imperative to is correct any shortcomings in the country’s defense mechanism and ensure such a tragedy would not happen again.

Ukraine’s president wants ‘a full admission of guilt.’

President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine, in his first reaction to Iran’s announcement, said Kyiv would “insist on a full admission of guilt” by Tehran.

“We expect Iran to assure its readiness for a full and open investigation, to bring those responsible to justice, to return the bodies of the victims, to pay compensation, and to make official apologies through diplomatic channels,” Mr. Zelensky said in a post on his Facebook page. “We hope that the investigation will continue without artificial delays and obstacles.”

Mr. Zelensky had come under domestic criticism this week for refusing to publicly blame Iran for the disaster even as the United States, Canada and Britain did.

Iran’s announcement on Saturday vindicated Mr. Zelensky’s cautious approach, said Ivan Yakovina, a columnist for the Kyiv-based magazine Novoye Vremya. “If there had been threats from Ukraine, then I believe Iran wouldn’t have allowed the specialists to do their jobs and generally would have refused to admit guilt,” he said.

Later, the office of the Ukrainian president posted on Facebook photos of what it said was shrapnel damage on the plane wreckage and a Canadian man’s passport showing piercings about half an inch in diameter.

Mr. Zelensky’s office said on Saturday that Iran had cooperated in Ukraine’s investigation of the crash and that Ukraine’s investigators had “received all of the necessary information from the beginning.”

That contrasted with remarks by the head of the Ukrainian investigation, Oleksiy Danilov, who said on Saturday that Iran had been forced to let in the Ukrainian investigators because the International Civil Aviation Organization would have closed off its airspace.

“As we saw it, Iran had to face the reality that there’s no way they’ll get out of this,” he said.

Mr. Danilov said Iranian authorities had also complicated the investigation by scraping the wreckage into piles rather than photographing and mapping the coordinates. In general, he said, they had acted “inappropriately.”

“When a catastrophe happens, everything is supposed to stay in its place.” Mr. Danilov said. “Every element is described, every element is photographed, every element is fixed in terms of its location and coordinates. To our great regret, this was not done.”

At some point, he said, Iranian officials realized there was no way to hide the facts from Ukraine, whose investigators found shrapnel marks in wreckage.

Iranian officials did not immediately respond to the accusations.

An Iranian commander said he accepted responsibility.
A commander of the aerospace division of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps in Iran, Amirali Hajizadeh, said on Saturday that he accepted responsibility for the plane’s shooting down minutes after takeoff in Tehran, according to Iranian state TV.

In a televised address, he gave more details about the sequence of events that he said had led up to the disaster, which killed all 176 people on board the passenger jet. He said it had been misidentified as a cruise missile, and was shot down with a short-range missile that exploded near the plane.

a barrage of missiles at two American air bases in neighboring Iraq, in retaliation for an American drone strike that killed a top Iranian general, an Iraqi militia leader and others in Baghdad.

Asked during his address why Iranian airspace was not shut to commercial air traffic amid the attacks, Mr. Hajizadeh had no clear answer.

Iranians reacted with anger and sorrow.

Iranians expressed fury toward their government in the first hours after Tehran’s admission, as many gathered in main squares around the city with candles on Saturday afternoon.

Conservatives and supporters of the government accused the authorities of intentionally misleading the public initially about what had brought down the plane, whose passengers included many young Iranians on their way to Canada for graduate study.

The semiofficial Fars News Agency, which is affiliated with the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps, posted a harsh commentary condemning Iran’s leaders, saying “their shortcomings have made this tragedy twice as bitter.”

“It is pivotal that those who were hiding the truth from the public for the past 72 hours be held accountable, we cannot let this go,” it read.

“Individuals, media, political and military officials who commented in the past 72 hours must be investigated. If they knew of the truth and were deliberately speaking falsehood or for any reason were trying to hide it, they must be prosecuted, no matter what post they hold.”

Siamak Ghaesmi, a Tehran-based economist, addressed the country’s leaders in an Instagram post: “I don’t know what to do with my rage and grief. I’m thinking of all the ‘human errors’ in these years that were never revealed because there was no international pressure.I’m thinking of the little trust left that was shattered. I’m thinking of the innocent lives lost because of confronting and being stubborn with the world. What have you done with us?”

Mohamad Saeed Ahadian, a conservative analyst in Iran, said on Twitter, “There are two major problems with the Ukrainian Airlines issue. One is firing at an airplane and two is firing at the public’s trust. The first can be justified but the latter is a mistake with absolutely no justification.”

Some social media posts made use of the term “harsh revenge,” which Iran’s leaders had promised to inflict on the United States for the killing of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, a top Revolutionary Guards commander; an Iraqi militia leader, Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis; and others as they left the airport in Baghdad.The general’s killing sent shock waves through the Middle East and led to calls for revenge in Iran, as well as a vote by Iraq’s Parliament to oust American troops from that country.

Mojtaba Fathi, an Iranian journalist, wrote on Twitter, “They were supposed to take their harsh revenge against America, not the people.”

Airline said Iran was ‘irresponsible’ in not closing airspace.
Iran’s decision not to shut down its airspace on Wednesday morning, shortly after it struck American positions in Iraq, was “absolutely irresponsible,” the Ukrainian airline’s vice president said.

“When you act in war, then you act however you wish,” Ihor Sosnovskiy, the Ukraine International Airlines executive, said at a news conference on Saturday. “But there must be protection around ordinary people. If they are shooting somewhere from somewhere, they are obliged to close the airport.”

Yevhen Dykhne, the airline’s president, said the Iranians had provided no information about possible risks before the plane’s takeoff.

French experts will assist in decoding black boxes.
French specialists will help decode the black boxes of the Ukrainian plane that crashed in Iran, the presidents of the two countries said on Saturday.

President Emmanuel Macron of France told his Ukrainian counterpart in a telephone call that France had also started a formal procedure to begin an international investigation. Macron agreed to visit Kyiv as well.

Western nations had turned up the pressure on Tehran.
International pressure had been building on Iran to take responsibility. American and allied officials had said that all intelligence assessments indicated that surface-to-air missiles fired by Iranian military forces had shot down Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752.

Hours after the crash, Ukraine International Airlines officials had consistently ruled out pilot error or mechanical problems as the cause of the crash. They had said the Boeing 737-800, which was less than four years old, was helmed by some of the airline’s most experienced crew.

“We never thought for a second that our crew and our plane could have been the reason for this terrible, horrific aviation catastrophe,” the airline’s president, Yevhenii Dykhne, said in a Facebook post on Saturday after Iran’s admission. “These were our best young men and women. The best.”

In Kyiv on Saturday, officials from Ukraine International Airlines pushed back forcefully on the Iranian government’s assertion, even as it acknowledged shooting down the plane, that the pilots shared blame for flying off route. Iran should take full responsibility, they said.

“Even in the statement of Iran there is a hint that our crew was acting independently, or that it could act differently,” the airline’s director, Yevhenii Dykhne,said. “Unfortunately, we have to acknowledge that our plane was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This could have been any plane.”

The crew received had no warning before leaving Tehran, the officials said. The plane took off as Ukrainian flights from Iran had dozens of times before, and followed the same departure routes as airliners leaving that night, Igor Sosnovsky, the airline’s vice president for flight operations, told journalists. “There was no deviation from any routes that some are hinting at,” he added.

The crew maintained normal radio contact with the tower in Tehran, he said, and followed a standard departure procedure for the airport. After reaching an elevation of 6,000 feet, the pilots were instructed to make a slight northerly turn. In the last communication, he said, onepilot simply read back this instruction from the tower, saying, “Turn and climb.”

Addressing criticism that the airline should not have sent a plane to Iran at all, in light of tensions in the region, the officials said it was Iran’s responsibility to close airspace if it intended to fire missiles.

There was also veiled criticism of the Iranian investigation, which the Ukrainians have been reluctant to discuss while their team is on the ground in Iran. Mr. Dykhne, the airline director, said, “we have noticed some oddities and irregularities.”

There was no immediate reaction from the United States to Iran’s admission, but Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had been the first American official to publicly confirm the intelligence assessments.

“We do believe that it’s likely that the plane was shot down by an Iranian missile,” Mr. Pompeo said at a briefing at the White House announcing new sanctions against Iran on Friday.

Trudeau calls for ‘closure’ and ‘accountability.'

President Justin Trudeau of Canada, who has said his country expects to play a big role in Iran’s investigation of the airliner crash that killed 63 Canadians even though the two nations do not have diplomatic ties, said on Saturday that “ accountability” was needed after Iran’s admission, according to a statement from his office.

“Our focus remains closure, accountability, transparency and justice for the families and loved ones of the victims,” the statement said. “This is a national tragedy, and all Canadians are mourning together.

“We will continue working with our partners around the world to ensure a complete and thorough investigation, and the Canadian government expects full cooperation from Iranian authorities.”

The 176 people who died on the flight included 57 Canadians, many of them students or faculty at the University of Alberta in Edmonton. About 27 residents of Edmonton were on the plane.

In Canada, Iranians are comparative newcomers: Most arrived after the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Today, by some counts, Canada has the third-largest number of expatriate Iranians in the world and its universities are a top destination for Iranian graduate students.

All sides should ‘learn lessons,’ a Russian official said.

Konstantin Kosachev, the head of the foreign relations committee in the Russian Senate, said Iran’s admission showed the downing of the plane had been a “tragic incident” and should not lead to further escalation between Iran and the West.

“It was a tragic incident; people cannot be returned,” Mr. Kosachev told the Interfax news agency. “The admission of error, although not immediately, and expression of condolences is sufficient to be accepted. With this, the incident should be closed.”

All sides should “learn lessons” from what happened, he said.

Mr. Kosachev also pushed back on reports that the missile used to strike the plane had been Russian-made. He did not deny the missile’s origin, but rejected any Russian responsibility for what had happened. “At the height of this tragedy,” he said, “it is absolutely immoral.”

have said that a Russian-made missile system designated SA-15 by NATO and known in Russia as the Tor struck the civilian airliner shortly after takeoff.

How does the missile system work?

The Tor system is a mobile missile launch system, with eight missiles carried on either a tracked vehicle or a truck. The vehicles can operate without relying on other air defense infrastructure.

They carry both a radar to detect targets and a launch system. The low- to medium-altitude missiles were developed by Soviet engineers in the 1970s as a so-called lower-tier air defense weapon.

Russia sold the Tor systems to Iran in 2005 as part of a $1 billion arms deal and over the objection of American diplomats. It has also sold the system to more than a dozen other countries.

A New York Times analysis of flight path information and video of the missile strike determined that the plane stopped transmitting its signal for between 20 seconds and 30 seconds before it was hit.

Civilian airplanes identify themselves with radio signals constantly streaming from a system known as a transponder on the planes, said Ian Petchenik, a spokesman for Flightradar 24, which tracks the signals for flights around the world.

The Tor software relied on radar and visual identification of a plane as well as the identification signals from the transponder, John Cox, an accident investigator and former pilot who is the chief executive of Safety Operating Systems, said. If the identification is incorrect or absent from the plane, Mr. Cox said, the system “will declare it a threat.”

From there, he said, the missile navigates via radar, “and when it gets in proximity to target it explodes,” releasing deadly fragments. A second missile is usually fired immediately after the first.

At that point, the plane, in flames, glided down to its demise.
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LINK

Iran finally admits they shot down the airliner. What a mess.

revgen, Jan 11, 2020

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Weezy Moderator Staff Member

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John3:16 said: ↑

How is Trump being used? They attacked our embassy and killed our citizens As commander in chief, he's obligated to protect us He retaliated. After their rocket launches (and warning of us when and where) he used diplomacy, which is you believe the memes, he would never do. But he did. Which I appreciate.

Not sure what he could have done better.
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All presidents get used by the military higher-ups with their agendas. A lot of people love and profit from war. I’m not knocking Trump, I thought that was just reality. I do think Trump is a moron though, and the military men probably salivate at how easily they can manipulate him, but it’s still probably not much different than the last couple guys before him. I guess I don’t and never have loved the us vs the world narrative or mindset, I wish we looked at ourselves more as humanity trying to make it, instead of this people vs that people with all these imaginary lines separating us. But, I know that’s not reality and sadly humanity is violent, primitive, petty, greedy and stupid still. Maybe one day we’ll get to a better place if we don’t blow eachother up first.

Weezy, Jan 11, 2020

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revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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So Trump was used by the military higher-ups to stop the next Benghazi?

revgen, Jan 11, 2020

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Anyone up for a game of Missile Command?

acetabulum7, Jan 11, 2020

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That's not "it".

Kenzo, Jan 12, 2020

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acetabulum7 said: ↑

Anyone up for a game of Missile Command?

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crazy technology, but we're still talking about snuffing out human lives. It sucks no matter how you look at it.

sirronstuff, Jan 12, 2020

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