D'Angelo Russell Discussion: Adopting A Professional Attitude

If you offered me a choice of either Dlo or Josh Hart at this exact point in their respective careers knowing everything we know about their talent, play and character I take Hart without a second of hesitation.

 

I definitely understand your take, but not this part.

This is robbing the Lakers scouting department of respect that they earned with their drafting. If you won't grant that they traded for Kuzma/Lopez over Russell/Mozgov, then you have to at least credit them with Hart/Bryant/Lopez over Russell/Mozgov.

If you don't value Hart as highly as Russell, that's fine, that's debatable, but the FO shouldn't be held responsible for hypotheticals when they came through with a stellar draft.

 

Why discredit their work?

Since 2014 they've had 11 draft picks and of those picks the worst one is Anthony Brown. The rest are Julius Randle (#7), Jordan Clarkson (#46), D'Angelo Russell (#2), Larry Nance Jr. (#27), Brandon Ingram (#2), Ivica Zubac (#32), Lonzo Ball (#2), Kyle Kuzma (#27), Josh Hart (#30), and Thomas Bryant (#42).

Even if Zubac and Bryant don't work out, that's a scouting success rate of 72.7% NBA players, most of whom are coming from the late 1st/early 2nd round which is damn near impossible to land a contributor year after year. The scouting department deserves more credit than "well they might f*** this up one day" and certainly deserve more credit than "this might not have happened" when they haven't f***ed up yet and nothing bad happened. They have been stellar and the trade that acquired Hart/Bryant/Lopez was a good trade.

 

I never said D'Angelo wasn't talented, he's just not my cup of tea. I quickly admitted I was wrong on the kid's talent level, the FO saw the talent that I didn't and drafted accordingly.

Ryan West/Jesse Buss have been in charge of scouting since roughly 2014 while Ryan has been involved in scouting since 2009. Jesse Buss has been elevated to assistant general manager since 2016 or so. How far back do you need to go to admit they've done a great job? You can go back 10 years and they've still done admirably considering their draft position.

If they'd kept their picks in 2009 (traded to save money) they drafted Toney Douglas (29) and Patrick Beverely (42). Those are two NBA caliber players late in the draft. They also drafted the rights to Chinemelu Elonu who was an overseas prospect they didn't really want in order to save more money again. I'd call that 2/3.

In 2010 they had only two late 2nds and got Devin Ebanks (43) and Derrick Caracter (58). You can call this 0/2 if you'd like. At least these guys saw NBA minutes though which is uncommon for their draft spots, especially Caracter.

In 2011 they again had only late 2nd round picks and still got Darius Morris (41), Andrew Goudelock (46), Chukwudiebere Maduabum (56), and Ater Majok (58). I'm inclined to say this is 2/4, but I'll call it 1/4 if you'd prefer. Goudelock and Morris both played multiple seasons in the NBA as 2nd round picks, again rare.

In 2012 they had just one pick, the last pick, and got Robert Sacre (60) who played 4 seasons in the NBA and started games for us. That is a win. 1/1.

In 2013 again only one pick in the late second round and got Ryan Kelly (48). I'd consider this somewhat of a win, similar to Morris, since he played NBA minutes as a 48th pick in the draft which is very rare. I'll call it a loss though for argument's sake.

That takes us to the 8/11 from before. At worst the scouting department since 2009 (when the current FO started to take shape) is 10/20 (not giving credit to Beverley and Douglas) and at best they're 13/22 over nearly 10 years with 61% 2nd round picks. That's somewhere between a 50% and 59% success rate which far exceeds your 20-33% estimates. That is a phenomenal accomplishment given that you agree it's difficult to hit on late 1sts/early 2nds.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to tear down possibly the strongest part of our FO to fit your argument. The fact is we've been a great drafting team for years and we should appreciate that. This argument is also so macro it's missing the trees for the forest. This idea that the trade conceptually was wrong doesn't matter if it resulted in a positive outcome, which it has. We've gained flexibility, obtained at least one great young asset (Hart or Kuzma), and expelled pieces that either didn't fit (Russell) or didn't want to-and shouldn't- be here (Mozgov).

 

I understand that, but even then the process worked too. We achieved great things with that trade. If we don't sign anybody, that deal is a solid B just based on what we accomplished so far. If we sign someone it's an A+ move and Pelinka deserves Executive of the Year honors.

 

I can’t believe an argument about this trade is still going on. How do you guys not tire of this? It’s like two ancient gods locked in eternal battle, but about D’Angelo freakin’ Russell. “He was talented!”. “But we dumped Mozgov, got a 1st round pick, AND a corner all-star center in Lopez!”. Lather, rinse, repeat. Personaliy, I convinced myself in that mock argument it was a great trade.

 

I have to say abeer, I think on this matter we might disagree even .

Sometimes the plan is "to put yourself in a position to succeed"...it doesn't matter if it works out or not. By giving yourself a chance, you put yourself in a position to succeed.

If we had Russell and Mozgov right now, the immidiate future would look gloomy. If FAs don't come, we still gave ourselves a chance and thats all you can ask for.

One thing is for sure. If we had Russell and Mozgov on the team right now...chances of the Lakers making the playoffs next season would be lower in my book than they are with the position we are in now.

Could the plan end up as a fail? yes. But in order to win championships and compete you have to take calculated risks and this is as calculated a risk as there is. Risking literally very little with a chance to hit a HR. Can't get much better than that. Low risk, high reward.

 

I'm going to think of myself as an ancient god all day. Thanks Weezy.

 

Uh oh what’ve I done. I enjoy the discussions between posters like abeer and yourself though, what makes this site so great. And I guess I shouldn’t be surprised people are still arguing the Russ trade not even a year later when some fans are still lamenting the Eddie Jones trade almost 20 years later.