D'Angelo Russell Discussion: Adopting A Professional Attitude

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by The Original 81, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,124
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    I don't think that he lacks the ability to get into the paint and be effective. In fact, I think it's one of his strengths - he can post up opposing PGs and he can do that slow dribble that we've all seen against larger opponents. He simply doesn't need the ability to take the paint in other ways if that's effective.

    Russ's DRPM is not good - at -1.8, but JC's is -3.0, better than only three of the 90 qualified PGs this season.
     
  2. wallangong

    wallangong - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,607
    Likes Received:
    4,870
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    You're pretty clearly selling him short and your argument changes every time trodgers addresses one. Nobody is saying DLo is a surefire star, but there are plenty of signs to indicate that he should have a very productive career and there's at least potential for stardom.
     
  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Actually I disagree with this. D'Angelo is not very good going to the basket. His lack of athleticism is an issue attacking the rim and when he's not in an aggressive mindset it becomes a real problem. He's shooting 55.6% at the rim, but it's the shot he takes the least of. He's taken more than 3x as many threes as layups or dunks. He's taken just 13% of his shots at the rim. Now that's okay. If he's not athletic enough to burst to the rim, that's fine, but his mid-range percentages aren't fantastic either. He's shooting a combined 41.8% from 3 feet away to the three point line.

    Russell's mid-range game is wildly inconsistent. If he made more shots in that area, I'd be more comfortable, but teams don't care if he shoots a 16 foot shot. When D'Angelo is aggressive and uses a change of speed to get to the rim, he's a different player, but he just doesn't do it enough at all. Instead, he's been content to hoist threes where he takes 45% of his shots and only makes them 35% of the time.

    If he were as aggressive going to the rim every game as he was against Cleveland or hell remember those games against Miami and Orlando last year? That's ideal D'Angelo right there.

    As for his defense, like I said there's a legitimate problem there. He's not a good defender, but like most on the team he's fundamentally a bad defender. He's usually hunched forward, off balance, chasing guys way too close out past the three point line. He's been really poorly coached on that end. It's not inherently bad though, you can hide a bad defender, you just need another defender in the other guard spot. You need a guy capable and willing to defend the other team's better guard on a regular basis. Is Clarkson that guy? Is Ball or Fultz? Definitely not Clarkson and the other two kids are big question marks.
     
    Cookie likes this.
  4. Lakerman JSJ

    Lakerman JSJ Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    3,697
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Offline
    ^I think D'Angelo is fully capable of getting to the hoop despite his lack of athleticism. If Steve Nash can get layups on a fairly frequent basis in this league, D'Angelo can sure as heck do it as well.

    He's got the moves that make up for not being able to just blow by guys (like Westbrook). He's just got to get in that aggressive mindset more consistently and not settle for as many J's. He's young and will find the right balance, I'm sure. His head's probably always swimming a bit because it's mostly on him to always set up the offense. You can see him getting more comfortable in his role lately & playing more off-ball seems to have helped as well.
     
  5. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,084
    Likes Received:
    13,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    the comment was to address another poster who used the 40pt gm to suggest that was why he's going to be a star and didn't want him to be a star somewhere else.
     
  6. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,084
    Likes Received:
    13,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    he could but he hasn't and doesn't
     
  7. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    5,220
    Likes Received:
    10,105
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Offline
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    My point wasn't that he's incapable of doing it, but that he just doesn't do it which is in a lot of ways more frustrating.

    I had an old coach who once told me, "Don't show me what you can do unless you're prepared to do it every time." It's poorly worded (he was 85 years old), but the point is when I see D'Angelo do it a few times in a couple games, I know he has the ability to do it so he needs to do it all the time. Or at least more often than he does. Way more often than he does.

    For instance, I don't think he's a lot less athletic than Steph. In fact he's bigger than Steph so he's got some natural advantages. He just doesn't have the focus to do it.
     
    Cookie, revgen and Battle Tested20 like this.
  9. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    36,404
    Likes Received:
    60,574
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    Yes, and once again you kind of twist the tone of the post to suit one of your give zero ground on your take campaigns regardless of what others say back in the dialog.

    Was replying to revgen saying he didn't think anybody is questioning D'Angelo's talent.

    "Sure goes a long way though in me wanting to have patience with him. When you see an explosion like the other night that's not a short glimpse but a whole game glimpse. That stuff doesn't grow on trees. At 20 years old. That's a hell of a lot to give up. We have some real smart, charismatic people coaching him now and in the FO evaluating him. Do whatever it takes to make sure he's not going to blow up somewhere else by exploring all ways with him here before thinking about trading him."

    Earlier a couple pages I said this to your maintaining he's mainly only effective from the perimeter and can't or doesn't take his man off the dribble.


    "Yes Russell's effective a lot from the perimeter ....it's great he's becoming a Lakers and league legend with his 3s shooting. But how about that [​IMG]tight area all around the paint from where he can dish, which he does, or kill them offensively. He gets to wherever he wants to go now and his handle has become quicker than ever but also more solid in control. Nash like in that regard at a young age. But how about the long term career potential of Andre Miller with the safer game with his size he plays. He still blows by guys and gets to rack the times he gets guys off balance because he's quick enough. I never cringe for his safety when he's going balls out. He's solid mechanically. Ingram is great mechanically too but I do worry all the time with him in the air and physics."
     
  10. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,084
    Likes Received:
    13,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Realdeal posted the stats, dlo simply doesnt get to the rim much, so saying hes perimiter oriented isnt false, and no he doesnt get to where he wants on the court, he gets into the middle mostly due to screens, its rare to see him iso someone and take them off the dribble for a layup, if you watch the highlights from the cavs gm and look at Irving highlights, youd see more of a mix between blowing by guys and causing defenders to be off balance as oppose to dlo one highlight of a cross over drible that really didnt take him anywhere but into a fade away jumpshot, which yes he did make. Most of dlo pts in that 40pt gm came by getting himself free off a SCREEN, he use to post up but i havent seen him trying that consistently either...also my reply was pretty revelvant, dlo 40pt gm wasnt anything different than Jennings 55 and jennings didnt blow up either even though he had a FULL season at 19/6/3
     
  11. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,124
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    Points off screens don't count now? Damn.

    There are stereotypes of different types of game. I'm not sure why we have to pigeonhole Russ as this or that sort of player at this point and judge him according to the fake standard we've erected. Here's a comparison with Steph Curry:

    Curry shoots 17% of his shots at the rim, 9% from 3-10, and 8% from 10-16. That's 32% of his shots inside 16. So, Russ is actually shooting as high a % of shots from 0-3, more out to 10', and more out to 16 feet. Russ shoots better in the 3-10 range, too. But he's lagging well behind in the 0-3 feet range vs. Curry's career - but Curry improved a lot over his career.

    But BTW in Curry's first season, he was the same age as Russ now, and his numbers were 60% 0-4, 38% 3-10, and 39% 10-16. Russ's again are 57, 45, and 35. Let's have a bit of patience.
     
  12. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    For the record Steph Curry takes 22% of his shots at the rim now and took 17% of his shots at the rim as a rookie. Russell takes 13% of his shots at the rim now. Beyond the percentage, Curry took 217 shots at the rim his rookie year through 80 games. D'Angelo (at the same age, but as a sophomore) has taken just 96 shots at the rim through 55 games. I understand the volume is different because of games played, but the ratio is off as well. Curry took 2.7 shots at the rim as a rookie, Russell as a sophomore is taking 1.75 shots at the rim. D'Angelo is on pace to take about 20-ish more shots at the rim in the next 11 games, so he'll still be well short of the amount of layups and dunks of Curry as a rookie. Curry this year has taken 275 shots at the rim and is on pace for easily more than 300 shots at the rim which makes up the second most frequent location that Curry shoots at (first obviously being from three).

    I'm not taking khmrp's side because I often can't figure out what that side is, but I'm saying it's a very valid criticism that he doesn't get to the rim more often.
     
    Cookie and trodgers like this.
  13. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,124
    Likes Received:
    18,496
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    I don't think that getting to the rim is all that important. He's getting into the paint as regularly as Curry, for instance. Good looks are good looks. I won't go crazy over one stat.
     
  14. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,019
    Likes Received:
    75,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    as i said earlier, i'm not sure russell's ever seen an uncluttered lane thanks to the folks with whom he shares the floor.
     
    Barnstable, ElginTheGreat and TIME like this.
  15. Khmrp

    Khmrp - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    12,084
    Likes Received:
    13,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    my point is simply
    well that was my point lol, not getting to the rim and it is important. It can help break down defenses, but obviously its null in void since he doesn't have anyone to really pass to hit 3's but it will matter later. Also I'm not considering him a an "untouchable" list, Ingram/Zu yes but Dlo can be had for the right star.
     
  16. KRL

    KRL - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2016
    Messages:
    1,369
    Likes Received:
    1,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Booker 70 .... yeah
     
  17. Weezy

    Weezy Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    18,570
    Likes Received:
    75,374
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Anaheim
    Offline
    So now the benchmark or comparative for Russell is a 70 point game, or he'll never be great? :D I've been as tough on Russell as anyone this season, his attitude on the court at times has been maddening, but there is criticism from wanting a player to play to potential or be consistent, and then there is irrational hatred.
     
  18. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    36,404
    Likes Received:
    60,574
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    So Cal
    Offline
    :SadPau2: ..... meh I heard he was cherry picking the whole game not even crossing half court for defense like the other Ball kid did in the high school game.




    [​IMG]
     
    abeer3 likes this.
  19. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,019
    Likes Received:
    75,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    booker took 40 shots in 45 minutes played last night. russell took 9 in 40. it's just not the same circumstances. luke doesn't want the lakers to play that way.
     
  20. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    8,535
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Despite the box score, I thought D'Angelo played an excellent game last night. He looks like a completely different player out there. Focused and engaged. I like.
     

Share This Page