D'Angelo Russell Discussion: Adopting A Professional Attitude

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by The Original 81, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Jaguar

    Jaguar - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I'd say Parker and Kyrie are Point giards from the list given. But, DLO doesn't have any of the aggressiveness and grit (I see you B.Scott) that those guards have. And for that reason alone he shouldn't be a point guard especially on a running team.
     
  2. Jaguar

    Jaguar - Lakers 6th Man -

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    He appears too worried about how he looks on the court. The red flag went up when soon after his arrival he was rumored to be dating a kardashian. B. Scott was right about his lack of maturity and focus. Solid post game interviews though.
     
  3. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    D'Angelo is a pure SG. It's quite obvious to me. He could still be our 2nd or 3rd playmaker as a SG. Why people have an issue with this I don't really know.

    Steph and Kyrie are SG's too but they're too short to play that position. They are the definition of "SG in a PG's body." Height is not an issue with Russell so they're not even comparable. And I think Parker and Wall are natural PG's.
     
  4. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    It's not so much that I don't think DLO is a PG, it's more that I think Ingram could be a better PG.

    Don't get me wrong, DLO is a good player in the making, but at this stage of their development, I trust Ingram more than DLO to run the offense without screwing up.

    I can only imagine what Ingram will be like in year 2.
     
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  5. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    I'm playing amateur psychologist here, but I believe Ingram has less ADD than D'Angelo does. D'Angelo constantly has those moments where he loses focus. Some blame it on being too being young and immature, which may be true, but it's there nonetheless. D'Angelo's focus issues are a little better than they were last year under Scott, but they still crop up way too often. When Ingram makes a mistake, it seems that it's more of a lack of experience than a lack of concentration or preparation.

    While Ingram is able to focus better on the court, he doesn't really strike me as leader of a pack. D'Angelo seems to have more of that kind of personality.
     
  6. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    I guess we can leave Russell at PG and have Ingram bring the ball up and run the offense as a point forward.
     
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  7. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    the offense generally has looked better with russell at the reins than anyone else.

    now, if an allstar caliber pg just fell in the lakers' lap via trade/draft/FA, then i'd consider trying russell at sg, but not now.

    again, you have to play both ends, and russell would have trouble with many of the league's sgs (think evan fournier on that end). also, his size advantage, which he uses both in the post and to get clear for midrange shots, would be gone.

    if russell's not a pg, he's a bench player. and that's bad.
     
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  8. wcsoldier81

    wcsoldier81 - Lakers All Star -

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    At this point I think the question mark is more on his will to become as good as he could be than his position
     
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  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    his coach seems to think he's doing well at pg.

    i just don't see how russell is drawing the fan ire. we should be mad at the collective almost historically poor defense, not at a 20 year old second year player who's been the best player on the team, imo.
     
  10. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    I think his assistant to turnover ratio has been better; his rebounding seems to have gotten better, additionally.

    I seen a fan mention this on LG: starting Ingram. He'll be another facilitator and we can use Russell in more off ball actions.
     
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  11. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    right, but for defensive purposes and many offensive purposes, russ would still be the pg. asking ingram to bring the ball up against pressure each possession could get ugly. i believe that in luke's ideal offense, the creating/distributing is, well, distributed. like gs. but curry's still the pg there.
     
  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Absolutely. Although, I wouldn't ask Ingram to bring the ball up every possession.

    He can be used to facilitate at times while we use Russell in different actions; mostly off screens where he can catch and shoot, and he's much more effective, IMO.
     
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  13. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed completely. I don't see any downside to it actually. Russell's #1 problem is staying focused while having the ball in his hands and throwing away bad turnovers. His #2 problem is lazy passes while he runs the offense that leads to turnovers as well. Take the ball out of his hand, run him in plays designed for him to get the ball back, and I think you eliminate a lot of stupid turnovers.

    We're actually best when Randle has the ball at the top of the key and the guards are running actions off of screens to free one of them up, not when Russell is controlling the ball.

    I'm honestly sick of Russell's attitude on the floor. He's irresponsible and lazy and entitled while he throws the ball away or takes bad shots. Ingram is without a doubt a better floor operator. For all the talk of flash passes that Russell has and court vision that Russell has, I've seen better/more consistent passing out of Ingram.

    All this PG/SG talk is sort of a strawman anyway. Ideally in this offense, there's no one initiator, but every person can initiate. Usually the Center can't do it, but having guys from 1-4 that can do it is the goal. Having another player like Ingram on the floor who can initiate the offense along with Randle and hopefully another guard (Clarkson...?) does nothing but help.
     
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  14. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    I honestly can't think of one instance where they pressured Ingram bringing the ball up, and he lost the ball, or dribbled it off his own foot, or tried to split the defense and lost it, and that happens with Russ on the regular. That's why I would prefer Ingram bring the ball up and initiate the offense.

    It would be different if Russ was making great passes to shooters or down low for a score after bringing the ball up, but he generally doesn't. He usually survey's the floor and swings it to someone else anyway. Might as well have a player that protects the ball better handling it more.
     
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  15. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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  16. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i'd argue that's because ingram doing that is a) still sort of a change-up and b) largely against second line players.

    russell has made plenty of fantastic passes this year, and many other very heady passes that aren't flashy (lots of good skips, for instance). the problem is that his teammates really aren't great finishers; plus, the paint is crazy clogged at almost all times because none of the pfs on the team are threats to bomb from the perimeter. i suppose ingram would have the advantage that the team's best shooter (russell) was actually out there making defenses concerned, though!

    i don't like russell's attitude or lapses in focus, either, but i think we're going a little overboard in terms of evaluating his strengths and weaknesses, both in absolute and relative terms.
     
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  17. Barnstable

    Barnstable Supreme Fuzzler of Lakersball.com Staff Member

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    From what I've seen, they test Ingram all the time, and play up on him as he brings the ball up, but he's so long and makes such good decisions that they have a really hard time effecting him. I don't think that's going to change much if his roll is increased.

    I'm not suggesting Russ sucks, or won't be a very special player. To the contrary, I think he's going to be really good. But I think Ingram will end up better at bringing the ball up and facilitating. In this system the PG isn't relied upon to always make plays for the other players, but Ingram has a really good feel for protecting the ball, the simple open pass, and penetration, and as you said Russ is a really good catch and shoot player.

    We should put both of them in a position to use their strengths to their fullest.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
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  18. X

    X - Rookie -

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    -If you really watch Russell, he does most things pretty nondescript. Nothing really stands out,DExcept for a handful of hot shooting games here and there. There haven't been many flashes or "stand out" moments where you see what he can really become or why he was drafted as high as he was. You keep waiting and waiting but thus far it just hasn't come.

    -He lacks speed and explosion and it's very obvious he simply most times cannot get by his defender without help of a pick, and sometimes not even with that. He's extremely flat footed and it becomes very glaring on the defensive end. He becomes lost and then lazy on both ends, and it becomes frustrating to watch. Then in the post-game interviews he'll say all the right things per usual, but next game it's the same story over and over.

    -But then someone will post his 36 min stats and so forth to show his potential or to qualm unrest. Fact is, that's all fine and well, but at some point he needs to get it together and produce. It gets tiring to watch him dribble up the court, pass it away, then stand there and point.. Then absolutely nothing most times. He never takes charge, never takes hold of a possession or a game when it's necessary. He gets disinterested, turns it over, becomes invisible and never reappears again. Sure he's only in his second season, but that doesn't change any of the above.

    -I've seen so much more progress and promise in Ingram thus far. You would think that would motivate or cultivate Russell to push his own game limits, but that hasn't happened, and the organization has taken some notice of that. Everyone wants him succeed, but it has to begin with him.
     
  19. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I have posted many non-per36 stats. They're just as pretty for a guy his age. He's already doing it, and people can't see it.
     
  20. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

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    Worst case scenario with Russell: he's a trade asset.
     
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