People love AR for the feel good story so he doesn't have the same level of vitriol that AD and Lebron get but i think his performance was worse than I even initially thought - the entire second quarter offense that led the Lakers losing the lead (the Lakers were up 7 and were playing well) was a bunch of misses from and bad passes. I'm not worried about it as to me he seemed like dead legs and I've seen him match up with guys like Bane but for all the talk of game planning, rotations, if Reaves hit these shots which are easy shots for him, this game goes a completely different path (as I noted in another thread Reaves played 39 minutes in Game 1 - Ham wore down his big 3 to get game 1)
The coach is an idiot for starting Reaves who did nothing but blow up in the starting role once it happened, and have a good to great first playoff series? Maybe for other things he does or does not do ..... but not this. Starts to games and to 2nd halves are extremely important. Please tell me you're not on the Beasley train still? Who else?
Yeah you might not like the strategy but it is definitely there: run up the big 3 minutes (AD, Lebron, Reaves) in Game 1 when the Lakers had rest and GS did not. See what happens in Game 2, see what adjustments GS makes, and maybe go for it but don't go crazy in terms of minutes/showing your cards as the road team has lost now 17 straight times against the home team after winning game 1 in a playoff series. Again you don't have to like the strategy as it definitely led to dead legs IMO for AD and Reaves in Game 2 but it's not idiotic
I can’t speak for others but my “level of vitriol” is inline with the players pay scale. I certainly don’t think Reaves was good in game 2 and said as much over and over in game chat but no way I hold him to the same standards that I hold AD or LeBron to. If 2 players make up. 60 or 70% of the salary cap, you better believe I expect them to carry much more of the load. That includes playing a lot of minutes. If they wanted to play less minutes and take it easy, they should have left some money on the table to get upper epsilon secondary stars.
This is strange: I don't think any player or any employee should be criticized for getting the most as they can. The way this is structured too guys like Lebron and AD get underplayed (I,e they brought in a ton of money to the Lakers during the Bubble as an example) It's also the owners who have put in restrictions so that guys like GS and Clips cant spend for stars and semi stars
Why is it strange? If I’m an older employee and I know I’m going to need rest or get injured for X amount of games,I’d like to have employees that have a good level of skills to fill in for me during my absences. Otherwise my team is going to suffer during these times. Dirk, Timmy and even god forsaken James Harden took less. It’s not like it doesn’t happen.
Because the CBA is written by owners and players and the owners have specifically put in mechanisms to prevent money being spent. This is like saying the employee who is not the boss should take care of HR and payroll. In addition, this creates a strange situation where AR can be considered ok to go over the top in terms of negativity because he'll get his bag next year (why should that be the case when he is clearly under paid for his performance this year)
I said Reaves was underpaid, not those exact words but that was my overall comment. That’s why my expectations for him are not as high as my expectations for our stars. Like any company your star employees are paid more but much more is expected of them. Do you agree? That’s what started this whole discussion. It was that the “level of vitriol” was less for Reaves. It should be in my opinion. He’s not a star and not getting paid like one. Regardless of the exact amount of money that AD and Bron are getting paid, they ARE CERTAINLY getting paid as stars.
It depends - in the game chat and the like or after one game no I don't think salary should play much or any role in the discussion. Players have bad games and bad plays regardless of how much money they make and salary is more important for their aggregate production. Look at AD: yeah he had a s***ty game but he just came off two generational defensive games. From a salary perspective if you take a look at the aggregate he's already done much more than nearly every other max near max player in the league (look at Kawhii, paul, Giannis, George, etc.). Yet you're willing to discount minutes and role in the team: players earn salary but they also earn playing time, plays run for them, etc. Reaves playing time and the plays the Lakers run for him are definitely maybe not Lebron/AD level but definitely as he's favorite comp for me for him on the Desmond Bane level. He is a star in the Laker system and all the more power to him but IMO he should be expected to play like one even if he's not paid like it (Patrick Mahomes is criticized if he doesn't win the Super Bowl not because he's no longer on the rookie pay scale) I also completely disagree with another line of argument is that players should choose to take less - this blaming players for the owner's decision - why should a player take less salary when teams can pay more for good roleplayers and choose not to? Lakers not signing Caruso while GS purposely taking on DLo' contract so they could eventually flip that for Wiggins. That was on the team not the players
I think if you don’t feel that salary should not play a big role in expectations, we are too far apart to have a real discussion. I am not excusing Reaves bad play, so that’s not part of this discussion. I don’t think anyone said Reaves had a good game . I also believe that if you know you need to miss games or take it easy for periods of the season, you should not expect to get paid like a player that shows up every game. It’s like me knowing I only want to work part time but want to get paid full time.
Again expectations for every single game or a series or a year? This is a dodge and excuse for unrealistic expectations and frankly vitriol - every player is going to have a bad game or a bad play regardless of salary. AD had a bad game 4 in Memphis as an example - did he live up to expectations absolutely for round 1. why should you care and why should that work into expectations? It's the owners making the decisions not the players on things like the schedule/travel/etc. Lakers having Lebron and AD now is a mistake because they had to sit them when they had injuries or didn't want to play em in back to back? What does Boston owe Isiah Thomas after running him into the ground and aggravating his hip injury and basically ending any chance of him getting a big contract? Lebron needs to be paid less because he can't put a game 4 and 6 performance every night and puts a up stinker in Game 5 because he's load managing in round 1? even though they would not win the series with a lesser player who is more available?
You’re comparing a regular job and it’s expectations to an athlete contract and that’s not the same thing at all. Most people get paid per hour in regular jobs and don’t have contracts guaranteed regardless of days spent working. An nba athlete’s contract can be various things: legacy payment (Kobe’s last contract), payment based on future potential (Michael Porter Jr), business payment (player sells a lot of jerseys and is worth the hype they generate), no one wants to come here so we overpaid (timberwolves). So with that in mind, it’s not pure performance payment or even time on the job. So I can’t put the expectations of a regular job onto an NBA player even though they earn millions. As an example AD doesn’t get paid to be healthy every season, he gets a 200m contract because on the one season he stays healthy over 5, he plays so well he wins you a championship. Lebron got the money because of how much viewers he brings not because he is the Lebron of 10 years ago. Another example Westbrook got paid by OKC for a loyalty contract, we can’t hold the business side against the players. So I tend to look at it as pioneer, players have expectations based on their level and the business side is how well front offices put their teams together - if sn owner cheaps out or gives a bad contract that’s on them.
Don’t accuse me of dodging a question you didn’t ask and I can have any expectation that I want. You don’t set the bar and your opinion is not fact. My salary/ expectations are for the whole season, not per game.
I agree it’s not a regular job. I was just using that as a reference. I do agree that there are many things that go into a contract. I was ok with Kobe’s last contract because it was a legacy contract and he played his whole career for us. I don’t agree that there shouldn’t be expectations that come with certain salary amounts.
