Anthony Davis Discussion: Only Player On Both All NBA + All Def

You do realize the ONLY reason anytime people bring up the kids vs AD is because you tried arguing stats of 3 players versus 1? And when people bring it up they’re mostly kidding because under no circumstance is that a legit comparison, so it’s even more fun to point out when the 1 player’s stats alone crush the other 3.

The trade was a no-brainer. I’d do it again today and throw in Kuz if we had to. Nothing the kids do will make the Lakers regret this ever.

 

an argument can't be won if we keep pointing at 5% chances as if they were 50% chances or worse, virtual certainties. level of probability matters. a lot. this is lost on some. AD is a top five nba player and has been for years. he's 26. so glad we traded the kids for him. would have traded more than we did. we're in first place, while the kid huggers have to point to stats and moral victories and slim chances at future "greatness". i remember those days and am glad they're behind me.

 

"The Clippers, Gallant writes, did everything possible to recruit Leonard to Los Angeles. They sent team representatives to games, built cap space for two max free agents, and made themselves more attractive with a run to the playoffs"

https://heavy.com/sports/2019/06/kawhi-leonard-free-agent-odds-clippers-raptors/

This was the narrative right before the national media jumped on the Lakers train. I never said the Lakers didn't want him... I said that we didn't have a plan like the Clippers. No one thought we were favorites until the very end.

I bring up the kids success because they are beginning to double AD's production on a regular basis and now I hear Kuzma should be thrown in as well?

Kwame Brown 6.6 PPG
Javaris Crittenton 5.3 PPG
Rights to Marc Gasol = draft pick because he was unproven at the time of the trade
Aaron McKie retired after the trade
2 first round draft picks

This is the type of trash we gave up for Pau

Ingram has now averaged 25 points for half a season...
It's early but now Lonzo has suddenly broken out like Ingram did last season with a possible game changing streak of 4 games in a row of 20 PPG
Obviously, this could be a fluke but this is what league experts predicted from him before he started choking constantly.
Kuzma has proven he can score close to 20 PPG
Hart is better than anyone on that list except for Marc Gasol
Who knows what #4 we would have chosen but Garland is shooting the 3 at 37% and scoring 12 PPG after a terrible start
Plus 2 more picks

I get that you can't simply compare one player to three or four

But BI himself is beginning to prove that he can score at AD's level just by himself

If Lonzo starts scoring regularly... and then our #4 target produces... plus Hart's consistent 6th man production... and now some want to throw Kuzma on the pile who has shown he can score 19 PPG.

At what point is the tipping point where you say maybe it's too much?

Would someone admit if two of the players end up averaging 20... and BI averages 25? Is giving up three 20 PPG players too much for a 25 PPG scorer and elite defender?

Not to mention all of the players we divested to create the space for the two elites.

We didn't trade that much for Kareem... we didn't trade that much for Wilt... we signed Shaq as a free agent... we traded Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts, damaged Bynum, and a second rounder for prime Dwight.

Yet I'm the bad guy for wishing we didn't give up what we did.

I'm being negative for wishing our team kept more of DLo, Randle, Clarkson, LNJ, LouWill, Thomas Bryant, Zubac, Svi, BI, Lonzo, Hart, Wagner, Bonga... plus three number 1 picks and some second rounders all divested for the purpose of signing two elites?

It's comically absurd how much we lost to create this team.

That's why I say a WCF isn't enough because I can't think of a team in history who gave up more for two players.

 

lol, we won't count marc gasol...because that's super inconvenient for my argument.

we'll also use one of the most lopsided deals in nba history as the touchstone...because that's super convenient for my argument.

name the player as good as AD that moved for less in the past decade or two. i'll wait a long time for this non-answer.

what's comically absurd is that you look back wistfully on the worst period in franchise history right now.

 

No mention on how much he's willing to pay these guys either: some pipe dream of Lebron, a maxed out BI, a maxed out Dlo leading the Lakers to the title?
Recipe to be like the Wall/Beal Wizards from a few years past - all your money in some really good but not MVP players

My issue with the trade is the pick swaps and number of 1st rounders. One less first rounder and the pick swaps should have been the price to pay once the lakers got lucky and got the 4th pick

 

No. What you've done with me aside from all your well know other feelings rehashed, is move the goal posts AGAIN with an indefensible statement which was QUOTE The Kawhi plan was last minute UNQUOTE. It was Paul George you maintained the Lakers may have decided they didn't want. That SM is a laughable and ridiculous TAKE regardless of what the Clippers were doing and what the Media was thinking all year "right up until the end".

 

any chance of PG being a laker ended in 2017 when he got butthurt that the lakers wouldn't trade half their team to indy for him. because a lakers team with PG and a bunch of g-leaguers would've contended right?

and i 100% believe kawhi would have signed with the lakers if the clips hadn't been able to land PG. i think he was hesitant to form a trio of stars but it was definitely a possibility until the clips were able to pull off the trade with OKC. apparently there was also reports that his people were unhappy with magic tweeting about their meeting so there's also that

 

Let's say there's a girl in high school that everyone wants. Two guys are going for her. One does so two years ago, another wines and dines her for an entire year. Assuming the guys are of similar attractiveness... which guy has the better shot with her. The one who thinks of her night and day for a year or the one who liked her two years ago that suddenly decides he wants her again.

It's a default that any franchise would want Kawhi just like it's a default that any franchise would want AD.

Using my crude analogy... it's a default that men want to date Margot Robbie. There is a big difference between someone thinking about her a year ago... and another person keeping in touch with her all year around.

The Clippers made an effort all year long to woo Kawhi.

Relatively speaking our effort was more of a last minute thing and mostly media hype from what I can dissect.

Again with Paul George... I never said we didn't want him... I said we prioritized LBJ and with that came the Klutch influence which may or may not have played a part in the changing of the team's primary target for LBJ's partner.

 

People tell me all the time that they know we'd lose our chance of signing AD if we didn't trade the farm for him.

I'm going by the media narrative (and Vegas odds) that had the Clippers favorites for Kawhi all year long until they decided to hype the Battle for Los Angeles at the last minute. Also... look where Kawhi ended up.

What concrete evidence was there that AD wouldn't have signed with us next season if we waited?

None... just extrapolating assumptions like I've done.

But people like one of the narratives and don't like the other... so mine is absurd, and theirs is completely rational to assume.

Neither of us know, we are expressing opinions on a message board.

 

the kawhi point is completely minor (and, as others have pointed out, wrong).

it's deflecting from the central point, which is that we underpaid for AD.

yay us.

 

In your opinion. Time will tell what the truth ultimately is.

In response to your point about Gasol... he was the equivalent of our #4... except even less valuable because he was a #18 pick. No one knew what he would become. By your standard I should unequivocally declare the awesomeness of our #4 pick and two future #1 picks.

My point being in our front office's mind... we were giving lesser picks along with Kwame, and Javaris for Pau.

Everyone universally thought we robbed Memphis and that there was something odd with the trade.

Yet some of you not only want to declare losing BI, Zo, Hart, #4 and two future picks a steal for us... but also want to double down and say you would have added Kuzma to the deal.

Could you all be right? Sure.

But so could I and only time will tell.

 

Dude - WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING @Sentient Meat ?!?!

Ingram and Zo are SOOOOOOOOO great that the Pelicans are the 2nd worst team in the western conference this year.

And we are SOOOOOOOOOOOO bad without them that we're 29-7, best in the west, 2nd in the entire league, and this time last year? We were .500 and the kids were losing to the effing New York Knicks AT HOME (while LeBron was out).

Sorry - you're never going to convince me that just because Ingram is scoring 25 ppg and Lonzo is only starting to play well and averaging 20 over the last 5 games that we gave up TOO MUCH for a guy that is literally an MVP candidate and DPOY candidate and leading us to an 81% winning pct more than a quarter of the way through the season.

Just please STOP it bro. If Pelicans were where the OKC THunder are right now, you could MAYBE say that we gave up too much. I don't hear anybody saying the CLippers gave up too much for PG13 though....and right now, with how OKC is playing, it's fair to say they DID give up too much (and even that is disingenuous because LAC still made the right move in acquiring PG13 to secure Kawhi, and they are 2nd in the west in spite of the injuries/load management).

 

We were coming off large tampering fines with the PG hunt and under a freaking microscope while the league was turning a blind eye to what Ballmer and the Clippers were doing. He was a long time plan once the news was out he liked the Lakers and wanted out of SA. Why the H were we clearing all the cap space with bodies going out as you constantly remind of your unhappiness about it. Up front, waiting for him so he would know we were serious. And AD giving up his trade penalty money.

So for you to state it was last minute and a Hail Mary play in FA is ludicrous. And pissed me off because you used it to jump into the FO bashing again claiming it would have been luck if we did. I mean WTF???? :

 

And your opinion is perfectly legit and reasonable.

I have no problem with the way you stated it there.

I take issue when people declare it as absolute truth.

If we win the title either this year or next... sure, you can say the experiment was a success.

If we don't win... I'd say it was a gamble that didn't pay off.

I also allow that Ingram could get injured again... Zo could go back to his choking ways... our #4 pick target fails and then the trade does look like a success even if we only make the playoffs.

But if Ingram stays healthy... if Zo finally breaks through... if #4 pans out and AD and LBJ never win a title then I don't think so.

People act like I'm pissing on their place of worship.

I'm calmly stating an alternative opinion.

We need to go back to the old days where people would have spirited debate instead of sitting confidently in their absolute correctness in their respective echo chambers.

 

Bashing?

I said I disagreed with the overpay.

I said some of you characterized it like it was our plan all along when we only made a push at the end.

If we merely copied what the Clippers did... I don't see how we could run into tampering issues.

I have complimented the front office on a great recovery from losing Kawhi... by signing more useful players and taking chances on Dwight and Boogie.

So if I only say 50% positive things, then I'm bashing?

Come on, man... this is a discussion board.

 

Yeah bashing. With crap takes toward the FO like this if we had actually signed Leonard.

Had we signed him, it would have been luck and nothing more... just like the Dwight signing.

 

What if OKC lost SGA or CP3? would they be winning? No. The Pels haven't had Zion all year. They finally seem to be finding a groove... and maybe they can make the eighth seed, especially if Zion is healthy.

What will you say then? Probably the Pels are only winning because of him.

But I'll remember you said this... If the Pels play up to OKC's standard... then MAYBE we gave up too much. Because the kids were always meant to be the supporting cast for two elites... and I believe with the added elite they will win... especially if Zo keeps balling.

 

Sometimes moves are luck, sometimes they are engineered. Some franchises have been changed by coin flips... some by bones in the feet... some by cocaine overdose.

No shame in this... you need to reproduce results for years like Popovich for it to be more than chance.

Their decision to sign the shooters and the two question mark centers were good ones.

I feel way better about Rob's leadership so far than Magic's.

Hardly bashing to say they tried for Kawhi much later than the Clippers and that they decided on Dwight at the last minute.