Anthony Davis Discussion: Only Player On Both All NBA + All Def

Only if he had a tendency to be injury prone.

Remember, the risk was LBJ's age combined with AD's tendency to be injury prone plus his inability to win as the main player.

I had no quarrel with signing AD next season even if it cost us signing Ingram. I had no problem trading him for less. I felt the cost was high and that had LBJ aged this season we'd be stuck with a playoff team that couldn't quite finish off the job... and then be back in the Pelicans shoes in a couple years.

I have said that so far it looks as though you all were right, and I was worried for no reason, but to act like it was a slam dunk/no brainer is something with which I have to disagree.

This all was contingent on LBJ showing no decline, and AD not having any serious injury issues.

Both of these things happened along with generally good signings that rectified the Lance/Beasley type signings of last year.

Sure AD went for 50 and 7 plus 6 assists... but then again our "mediocre" kids went 49 pts 19 reb 12 assists... and if you count Hayes as our #4 pick it would have been 62 pts 23 reb and 13 assists. And that's with Hart having a bad night shooting.

I'm very happy with AD... but some of you act like these kids are chopped liver and I think this production on the regular should be expected.

None can hold a candle to AD individually... but they are much more useful in terms of depth and they also could have been traded for missing pieces.

It's not the decision to trade for him that bothers me... it's the sheer amount of assets combined with the likelihood we could have signed AD next season and lost only BI.

Then you have LBJ/AD/Zo/Hart/#4/Kuzma plus future picks as a future core vs. only LBJ/AD/Kuzma

But since it looks as though we might be able to win a title... then maybe it's worth that loss of assets.

Again we kind of need to win it all to be truly worth it in my mind.

 

FFS, another thread goes to s***...

 

Problem is none of them yet individually or this collective thing you're now doing were consistent game to game or even available regularly to play most of the games, and no one out of all of them individually or collectively has matured enough to close games out when we had leads.

AD was the missing piece. Who are these other missing pieces better than him if it came to that .... multiples of these same kids going for whom?

 

He is better for the team now. The variables are that he must play 70 plus games and the playoffs as well as LBJ.

I'd say we are safe for this year, barring a fluke injury... but before this season happened there were many things that could have gone south.

LBJ playing at a decreased level... AD being hampered for any significant time.

Since neither of these two things have happened... the plan has been a success.

Also, Lonzo's continued inconsistency plus Zion's injury is making the trade look way better.

Hayes is going to be special btw... I have no idea if we would have drafted him... but he should be part of the equation in a discussion because our pick was that high.

 

Both of those could have happened with James and to the kids as well if still here.

 

Yes and that's part of the equation.

If Ingram's blood clot emerges... then the trade is even more unbalanced... If Zo keeps getting hurt... or playing like crap... the trade looks good.

But if Ingram continues his form, Zo finally finds some consistency on offense, Hart becomes a good sixth man, and Hayes develops into a starter quality player... then it's not so crystal clear.

I'm glad we've been fortunate... AD has been fantastic recently... more than justifying his hype. But there were periods when he wasn't so great and that might have been the after effects of the torn labrum. If both he and LBJ keep dominating all season then not more can be said on the subject even if the Pelicans get Zion back and turn things around.

The main benefit of the kids plan was flexibility and depth. The AD plan's benefit was that you have a better player that's a bird in the hand rather than the uncertainty of repeating the PG situation by waiting a year.

Again, so far it's been a success but there's just no room for error in terms of the two stars health.

 

Well season ending injuries to both would suck wouldn't it. Or a season ending injury to one of them would suck. If either or both have some time missed say no more than three weeks or a month we're still in the hunt for a ring. If it's in the playoffs and eliminates us that's just the breaks .... Warriors say hello from last year. S*** happens all the time. It would still not mean we did not have a wildly successful season. Please tell me you are not a "ring is the only thing" fan. The odds are always against that. You can just hope to be one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league in the hunt and we are.

And it's clear to most everyone that these two extremely talented BIG players are a great tandem. And will be next year as well even if Bron starts to decline some finally. He's not falling off of a cliff. AD is an incredible building block as the best all around 2 way BIG man in the game who hasn't even gotten to his prime yet. My god.

 

Just so you don't think I'm so negative all the time... this season has convinced me that LBJ can follow Karl Malone's arc which gives him a couple more years of high quality play... Mailman went to 36 at 25.5 PPG... this seems achievable for LBJ especially if he keeps improving his jump shot from range.
Then he began his inevitable decline but he still averaged 20 pts at 39.

The key is for us to take these last three years and then pair AD with the next big thing instead of wasting two years extending him beyond that.

The problem here is that Klutch might insist on the Kobe like extension which would take him to 38 or 39.

This could be devastating adding two years at 40 million plus if he declines after three years.

If he bows out gracefully, then yes AD can be a good building block if we pair him another great perimeter player after LBJ's contract finishes.

 

Yep agree there for sure.

 

..... and that was relevant why?

 

Sounds like you are saying the kids plan might be safer but have a lower ceiling or longer window to success

Conversely the all or nothing 2 stars plan might be riskier but have a higher ceiling with a shorter window.

I have no argument with this if that is what you think.

 

not really, though. superstar primes are 4-8 years. if your young talent is sub superstar, it's both a low ceiling and about the same "window". the question is what's the window for? a title? because there was no window, pre-AD, and now there's a short one. and another star coming to join AD in two or three years is much more likely than another star coming to join a maxed-out BI and mostly spare parts, as we've already had a chance to see.

can't stress enough that ingram is going to make nearly as much money as AD starting very soon. that will be a bitter pill to swallow.

 

But my contention was never that these kids were going to be superstars. Ingram surprised us by not only overcoming his blood clot, but by continuing his post all star break form.. and sustaining it into this year. Ingram was supposed to be our third option accompanied by the three stars. Now I don't think many would question that he's a proper second option. But even so, our goal should have been to land the two elites and combine them with the best and most cost effective of the kids while keeping our picks. You want to talk about gambling? What if we took a risk and offered him a modest extension when he was showing promise but still inconsistent? Our executives saw him in practice day after day... they should have known better than anyone what we had.

Yes AD is a superior second option who may rightfully become a first option under LBJ's tutelage... but on the other hand we could have had two elites, Ingram as a third option... still had players such as Zo/Kuz/Hart/Mo/Bonga plus #4 plus our picks.

I've said a hundred times, if not here on other boards that if LBJ were 25 years old, I'd have much less argument with the trade. AD and LBJ have already proven to be a legit championship contending pair. But my worry was combining an injury prone AD with a old LBJ. Young LBJ would have been fine in my mind. It turns out that we look like we will have at least two years of title contention with this version of LBJ... but in this respect we were very lucky.
Had he declined, this would be a much different story.

 

AD is a better first option than, like, all but 4 players in the league. if he's not a first option, there aren't first options.

and i've seen your list of "elites" that were possible (which, as we've discussed, probably wasn't anyway). i'll take AD and lebron over two of those and whatever kids stayed. every time.

still think your valuation of davis is borderline trolling. you can't possibly believe he's not one of the very best players in the entire league. at 26 years old.

 

I was gambling that you would see the connection. My bad.

 

LBJ at 22
Daniel Gibson
Drew Gooden
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Sasha Pavlovic

equals Championship finals appearance.

AD at 22
Tyreke Evans
Eric Gordon
Alonzo Gee
Omer Asik

with Jrue on the bench when the others were hurt

equals 30-52

The AD of the last week or two has been a revelation. If he keeps imposing his will then yes I will call him a winning first option. If LBJ gets hurt and AD settles for inefficient outside shots while losing then maybe I'll have to say second.

Big difference between a first option who wins and a first option who loses. Right now BI is a losing first option. He scored 31 points including a clutch shot towards the end last night... but then he missed the most important shot albeit on a horribly designed iso play.

LBJ won on terrible teams. Siakam would thrive doing what AD is doing right now although not quite at his level.

 

Just wanted to throw my two cents regarding the debate:

I think Anthony Davis is very good at basketball and I’m glad he is a Los Angeles Laker.