2024-25 Team Developments: Trades / Free Agents / News / Rumors / Ideas

This is why, when people talk about great players and goats, it is always a sketchy conversation. Jordan had a great 6 year run, but beyond that his career was kind of mediocre. For six years, he was a god. Magic had a run of 10 years that was amazing, if he would have never had to retire early, I always wondered what could have happened if the Lakers were able to retool around him. That never happened and we never really got to see him as the #1 option. I have little doubt that he would have eaten some of Jordan's legacy. But it is what it is. Jokic will possibly have a longer tenure of greatness than Shaq had. But Shaq in a 5 year window, had a higher peak and I doubt Jokic will EVER win 3 in a row.

 

Murray hasn't made an All-Star team but he clearly played at an All-Star level in the 2020 and 2023 playoff runs. I think what the Nuggets have around Jokic is better than what the Spurs had around Duncan in 03 before Parker and Ginobili came into their own, and better than what that 06 Heat team had around Wade. I think Jokic's supporting cast is fine. There's not another Top 20 guy in the league, but Murray can play at a Top 15 level for long stretches in the playoffs, Gordon is one of the best role players in the league, and MPJ is a classic feast or famine guy. KCP and Brown were both higher end role players that got paid elsewhere. Of course Jokic is helping to make all of these guys better, but I think their supporting cast is actually a little underrated.

Jokic feels Aaron Rodgers-ish to me. The stats were crazy in his prime, and when Rodgers won the SB in 2010 it seemed like he was going to take the mantle from Brady and become what Mahomes eventually became later. But then he never got to another SB. Still all-time great stats and accolades, but in hindsight Rodgers career feels a little underwhelming.

 

Zion is a big time talent and he's still young. Luka and Zion would be a potent 1-2 punch for years. Zion is like early Lebron, it doesn't matter if he has a jumper or not, you still can't guard him one on one.

 

The but doesn't bother me I watched showtime and yes Kareem may have been the best player on the first title teams but his teammate was freakin Magic Johnson. talk about a player who could adjust his offensive performance to maximize team output, he's the greatest of all time there. Shaq was Shaq physically I've never seen a more dominant player and that includes MJ and Lebron - however, the FT shooting was a big problem and he played in a far weaker center era than Kareem or Hakeem. Hakeem really took it to him in that Orlando series.

Basketball has grown tremendously both in popularity and the available population to get basketball players (both in the US and international). We're going to get more great players just because the player pool is just bigger now.

And I stick by Jokic has not had the equivalent talent around him: Murray maybe underrated relative to his All-star games etc but he is simply just not the calibre of player like Magic, Kobe, or Wade. Murray wouldn't even be in the conversation of greatest PG of all time while Magic is #1 or at worst #2 if you're a Curry guy. Kobe and Wade are probably #2 and #3 among all time SG's.

I guess where I'm going with this to me it's not denigrating any of these guys like Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem to compare them to a guy who just won 3 MVPS, a title, and put up a 60 point triple double. Comparing centers is tough generationally IMO but I don't see any reason to think Jokic wouldn't't have been an MVP caliber guy no matter what era.

 

Luka, Zion and AR would be a major problem in the league for years.

 

Zion on average playing even less than Joel Embiid.
Just 214 games for his 6 seasons
Hell ,big no

 

Yeah but he's still only 24 years old, and there hasn't been any ACL, Achilles tears, back Injuries etc. I'd roll that dice post Lebron myself.

 

Depends entirely what you're trading for Zion. AR? No. Zion is still the superior talent, but AR is becoming an extremely reliable fringe All-Star caliber guard still in his mid 20s on a great contract. But something like Rui/Vando/Dalton and modest draft capital? Yeah, now I'm thinking about it. But if you're the Pels, no way you just dump him for something like that. You're better off hoping he one day puts it all together, or at least is healthy for a long enough stretch that you get a better return.

 

I don’t want any part of Zion.
He’s the most unreliable player of his generation.

 

It doesn't matter how old he is.It is same why Lakers refused to trade for Williams because he's not reliable and not playing in b2b

 

i was willing to move for zion, pre-luka, without including reaves (all the picks and expirings). i'm good now.

 

Williams is a different story though, he's played almost as many games as Hayes, at a significant upgrade across the board. I still wonder what really went down in that situation. I'd still trade Dalton for Williams right now.

 

i loved that trade and was bummed when it was canceled. just gotta believe we saw something that will become obvious later. but it took us out of contention this year, when for a moment i was like...this might happen!