2022-23 Team Developments: News / Trades / Free Agents / Rumors

maybe...but that's another academic issue (league may or may not grant the exception, which may or may not impact the cap number--there have been tricky cases in the past like this, like darius miles, iirc).

i don't even know what you and alcindor were debating, really.

i think you seized on me being pro-conley trade when i was just being pro-"get the facts straight on contract minutiae".

i'm still pro-conley trade, but his partial guarantee is so minor as to be almost peripheral.

 

Damn, everyone writing dissertations up in here.....

 

Im bored but...Meh..you are flailing around now. First It's one thing, then no, it's something else.

Career averages mean more because it's a whole body of Work? OK.. Let's continue to look at that chip team in the playoffs.

So Lebron shooting 37% from 3 in the playoffs that year is an outlier? Cool..then so would AD at 38%, Rondo at 40% and Morris 42%. I guess your point was..let's look at their career shooting numbers. That's set in stone, they can't step up from those numbers?

Hmm now KCP, Bradley and Green all shot better and were in the top 6 minutes!! Not in the playoffs tho.

Lebron and AD are still here..both increased their 3 pct in the playoffs. So did Rondo and Morris. I suppose your logic dictates that it can't possibly happen again.

Bradley didn't play in the bubble. KCP maintained his 38% but Green slipped to 34%. Fwiw Kuz stayed at 31% Caruso 29%.

So what we had there was Rondo and Morris, stepping way up over their regular season and career avgs in the bubble, Along with AD and Lebron.

I don't know who is going to play how many minutes per night, outside of the big 3, but somebody is going to get those minutes, and they have all shot better than league avg from three recently or last season. I'm pretty sure that they can mirror our regular season from 20. Some of them will elevate in the playoffs too, just like 20. Nobody expected both Rondo and Morris, to shoot over 40% after going 32% and 33% respectively during the regular season.

Now it's all on Westbrook...we can't win with him playing a lot of minutes because he shoots poorly from 3!!!

Well he avg 3 attempts last season, shot Caruso like under 30%(29%) for Alex in the bubble..true indeed. Alex avg 3 attempts..

Kuz avg 4 attempts, in 25 minutes a game at 31% though. We somehow managed to win a chip, with both of those guys playing around 25 minutes apiece.

The actual numbers are not exactly how you positioned them. We didn't have a great bunch of shooters in 20. Our two best players stepped it up on that front in the bubble. We had two other guys go way over their career avg, Green avg slipped and KCP's stayed the same. The other rotation guys were below average.

We'll be alright as is IMO.

 

Ainge is probably going to trade those guys elsewhere just because.

 

Watching some reports and things, I kind of see where Rob and the FO are coming from this off-season not moving Russ so far.

We can hold onto ALL of our picks and get Myles Turner next off-season (who is known to want to be here) or possibly Kyrie Irving though more money, older, health, more flake factor also his team may do very well or not which would effect things.

So we can retain all our draft assets and have bird/early bird rights and ability to resign both Beverley and Nunn for next season. Beverley @ 35 we can resign for way less, vet min most likely. Who knows with Nunn. We have a core big 3 of Lebron, AD, Turner, role players Nunn and Beverley, resign Reaves, maybe Bryant or Jones MLE to use, some other scrubs perhaps worth resigning in there Gabriel/Pippin/Brown/Christie/Huff/Toscano-Anderson

The point being we retain all our picks and we only have one first-round pick out there (2024) that doesn't belong to us anymore so we would be sitting pretty healthy from a draft point of view while fielding a big-3 team. Early bird rights on Nunn would allow us to offer him a 2-year 18.375 million offer (must take the 2 years, second year can be non-guaranteed, but can’t be a team or player option.) Afterwards we have full bird rights. It's not crazy money but it may be enough to keep him here.


How much do we value Turner? If we do, the wait plan is the best. 26 years old, entering his prime, 7-footer, spread the floor, extreme shot blocker, slightly below average rebounder, average NBA free throw shooter, athletic. A basically perfect fit with AD. will not cost max, based on our options, waiting it out for him seems not bad.

 

Another major fail.

NO ONE said players can't shoot above their norms over a 20 game stretch, which is what happened in the bubble playoffs when it comes to Rondo and Morris. That was just an idiotic rebuttal on something that wasn't even being debated.

Read slower this time: A career percentage as well as more recent performance (previous season or previous 2-3 years) is WAY BETTER when evaluating a player than simply cherry picking a single season, like you did about a 100 times. Ya, that would include of course evaluating a player over a 21-game stretch like you just wasted your time in doing (when it wasn't even argued)

Notice nothing in there was about what a player might do in a 20-25 playoff stretch. INSANE
I never said we "had a great bunch of shooters in 20" either- but compared to now it is night and day

Why you made it about playoffs is anyone's guess. We were talking about having good shooters on this team- and aside from James and Beverley, we are completely lacking in them- and certainly volume shooters. I would include Nunn, but he just got pushed further down the pecking order and might not get 16 minutes a game.

When you consider AD hasn't remotely come close to doing what he did that season from distance and that 30 minutes a game Westbrick is about the worse volume 3-pt shooter in the game, coupled with Beverley not being a volume guy at all (barely 1.5 makes averaged the last 4 seasons) and Nunn likely finding a hard time for minutes, if he is even healthy.....it is barren of good shooters and certainly unproven ones.

The 2019-20 Lakers only shot 34.9% from the field during the regular season and barely improved that number overall in the bubble (35.4%)....

If Westbrick is off the team, and we get another good shooter or two, then maybe if Reaves/Walker greatly improve and we get a surprise from someone else...maybe we can come close to that.

It begins with his exodus though....period

 

Still bumbling and fumbling here bud. But I get it..it's really about Westbrook. Check.
Maybe you have a reading or comprehension problem . I posted career and season numbers. Commented as such on every guy I posted about. Any way..

This is getting boring , but at least I have 80 pages of your thoughts to bring up in a month or so.

So Lebron and Bev are the only guys we have that can knock down 3's. In 20 we had 3 Green, Bradley and Kcp .Gotcha..we can revist this post when the games start.

 

You’ve read that wrong. I don’t mind you being pro Conley at all. I’m stoic on what happens with roster construction because I have no control over the matter, I just try to bring up points with some rational objectively. I’m also not pro Westbrook as people think, I just want what’s best for the lakers.

I still don’t get the final part that you said about his partial guarantee. If we trade for Conley, any situation to me where he is cut is terrible and I see no silver lining in his partial guarantee vs full guarantee.

 

there are degrees of terrible. his contract status makes disaster recovery less painful. and we should be used to disasters at this point and learn to prepare for them.

 

I would put up the white flag as well if I were you...

In 2019-20 we had LeBron James, who had just started making it more of his game and had shot 36% from distance in 2 of the previous 3 years.
In 2019-20 we had Kentavious Caldwell- Pope, who had made an average of 2 makes per game and also 36% the previous 3 seasons
In 2019-20 we had Danny Green, who had shot 46% in winning a championship the previous season and over 40% overall the previous 3 seasons
In 2019-20 we had Avery Bradley, who had shot over 37% the previous 3 seasons
In 2019-20 we had Quinn Cook, who had shot well over 40% the previous 3 seasons
In 2019-20 we had Troy Daniels, who has shot well over 40% the previous 3 seasons
In 2019-20 we had Rajon Rondo, who improved his 3-pt shooting to 35.8% the previous 3 seasons
in 2019-20 we had just traded for Anthony Davis, who had made it part of his game somewhat; shooting 34 and 33% the last two seasons

Later we added Markeiff Morris, who has shot roughly 35% over the previous 3 seasons

Kyle Kuzma (around 34% the last two seasons, but had started becoming a volume shooter) and unproven Alex Caruso were the only two rotational guys who WEREN'T average or above average shooters from distance.

So far for 2022-23...

We have James as a plus, more due to his increase volume and we just added Beverley, who is a career 38% shooter and has knocked down about that number (despite his career-worse 34% last season) over his previous 3 seasons. Kendrick Nunn also comes in at a career 36% over his two years in the league but as we all know he still may have injury concerns that had him miss the entire last season AND the addition of Beverley, along with James playing plenty of PG and the SG rotation of Austin Reaves and Lonnie Walker- may have him way down the pecking order when it comes to playing time anyway.

Along with those 3 (James, Beverely and Nunn) we have:

Anthony Davis in 2022-23 who has STRUGGLED IMMENSELY from distance the last 2 seasons (22.9%)

Russell Westbrook in 2022-23 who has been DREADFUL from distance the last 3 seasons (29.3%), even worse the last 5 seasons (27.9%) and as well all know is likely getting 30 minutes of playing time if he is still here, which is less "from the point" of the 3 mentioned above who are our best 3 shooters (LBJ, PB and KN)

Austin Reaves shot 31.7% as a rookie last season which is way below average and at best you label him as an unproven shooter from distance

Lonnie Walker is a below average shooter for his 4-year career (34.3%) and over the last 2 seasons, when he has been part of the Spurs rotation he has made only 33.2% of his 3-pt shots but has increased his make volume at 1.6 per game. Best label would be a streaky below average shooter at this early stage of his career

Juan Tascano-Anderson has shot 36% in his 3-year career, but has only made one per two games (.5) and is still at best labeled as an unproven shooter from distance, plus he may not even make the rotation

Troy Brown Jr. is also best labeled as unproven (.7 makes per game) and has shot a below average 33.7% for his short 4 year career

Thomas Bryant is about the only other plus on the roster, because he is a career 35% shooter which is excellent for a center, including shooting over 40% in two of his last 3 seasons

So in a nutshell it is:

2019-20:
James (really good volume, average to above average shooter)
Davis (better volume for big man, above average shooter for big man)
KCP (good volume, average to above average shooter)
Green (excellent shooter, good volume)
Bradley (above average shooter, descent volume)
Cook (excellent shooter, low volume because of limited PT)
Daniels (excellent shooter, low volume because of limited PT)
Rondo (improved to average shooter, descent volume)
Kuzma (improved volume, slightly below average shooter)
Morris (good shooter and descent volume for big man)- acquired late

Caruso (unproven shooter)

2022-23:
James (excellent volume, average to above average shooter)
Beverley (above average shooter, descent volume)
Nunn (slightly above average shooter, injury and rotation concerns)
Bryant (good shooter for big man, low volume)

Davis (way below average shooter last 2 seasons, has to prove he can rebound)
Westbrook (dreadful shooter, perhaps worse volume shooter in NBA)
Reaves (unproven, below average shooter so far)
Walker (below average shooter, increased volume)
Tascano-Anderson (unproven, average to above average shooter, little volume)
Brown (unproven, below average shooter, little volume)


No, the two seasons are not even remotely comparable and each time you attempt to you look more and more foolish in doing so.

I will repeat, if the Lakers have ANY CHANCE of competing next season you have to get rid of Westbrick (opening up more time for Beverley, Reaves-who I think will improve from distance and Nunn) and get a minimum of 1 more good shooter on the roster (2-3 would be ideal).....PERIOD.

 

I could see a trade for Bojan/Beasley/etc. going down in the next few days.

 

What do you guys think is more important to the Lakers? First round picks or cap space? I'm thinking Utah may be willing to receive only one first round pick, if we accept either Conley or Clarkson. I would prefer Conley. However, if the Lakers are concerned about adding too much payroll this season, then they might prefer Clarkson over Conley. If we make any of these deals, as someone mentioned, we could shop Nunn for a three and D wing (like Reddish).

Potential trades:

WB, Gabriel, 2027 1st, 2029 1st to Utah for Bojan, Beasley, Alexander-Walker, 2027 2nd, 2029 2nd

WB, Gabrial, 2027 1st, 2023 2nd for Conley, Bojan, Beasley

 

Could but the Lakers (and their fans) need to be realistic about the cost.

1) The Jazz know that many teams will want Bogdanovich because of his outside shooting and expiring contract.
2) The "cost" to unload Westbrook- which is the only guy we can realistically trade for any sizable contract now that THT has been moved- is two 1st round picks and at least one of them being unprotected
3) The only way to get away from the #2 and that price to unload him is to take on BAD CONTRACTS, which essentially means cutting into our cap space of next year that we just created by unloading Horton-Tucker

Bojan/Beasley doesn't do either of those things. Beasley's contract is a team option for 16.5 million next season, so that does little to lessen the asking price of two first rounders.

No, a deal with the Jazz will HAVE TO INCLUDE one or more of Mike Conley, Jordan Clarkson or Rudy Gay- who have upwards of 45 million on the books for next year (Conley's partial notwithstanding and Gay has a player option for just under 6.5 million he will most certainly exercise).

With adding Horton-Tucker and now Collin Sexton, WITHOUT A DOUBT Ainge will want to move him (Conley) more than anyone. Pelinka has an opportunity here to perhaps lower the ask to one draft pick and get the player he really wants (Bojan) before someone comes in and grabs him- if he takes on Conley; which in my opinion he should do.

A Conley/Bogdonavich trade would be about 5 million short sending Westbrook their way (42.2 million/47 million) which means Ainge would probably ask us to take another contract like Clarkson (13.3 million) or Gay (6.1 million) to lower his tax bill. Both of them ALSO are signed for 2023 at 14.3 and 6.5 (player option) respectively. Gay would be seem to be the Lakers preferred choice as his contract is easier to move later.

Taking Clarkson as the 3rd piece would mean reaching much higher in our tax, but one would have to ask would cutting 38.6 million of their payroll lower the draft compensation even more???

I think Ainge would just as soon keep him if he isn't getting to hoard another 1st round pick, and my guess is it winds up Lakers taking Gay.

Westbrook and a 1st round pick for Conley/Bogdanovich/Gay would be more than fair for both sides and Lakers would just have to find a way to clear space during the offseason.

Nunn then could be used to get perhaps Reddish from the Knicks (adding a 2nd rounder perhaps).

They need to move away from the Pacers and their outlandish ask for Turner, whom they seem to want more than he is worth and some team I still think gives them a better offer than we would. Bryant/Jones can handle the 5 when we don't have Davis there...

SF/PG LeBron James
PF/C Anthony Davis
SF Bojan Bogdanovich
PG Mike Conley
SG Austin Reaves
PG/SG Avery Bradley
C Thomas Bryant
SG Lonnie Walker V
SF Cam Reddish
SF/SG Juan Tascano-Anderson
PF Rudy Gay
PF/SF Troy Brown Jr.
C Damian Jones

You could certainly do a lot worse than that 13.....

 

Yeah, pretty much correct. WB, 2027 unprotected 1st, 2023 2nd, 2025 2nd for Conley, Bojan would be fair. I prefer Gay not in the deal. Probably not a deal breaker though.

 

Conley is kind of like an older, more expensive Nunn without the injury concerns.

 

I think Beasley ends up in the deal as well though.

 

I’m not holding my breath on a trade. I think we go into this season as is.

 

yeah, still really feel like when we dealt for bevs, we were done dealing with utah. plus, it's clear people are trying to prey upon our desperation. i'd rather give it a go than do something stupid.

to be clear: conley/bogdanovic for russ/1st isn't stupid, imo. but anything more from our end is. and i'd bet serious cash ainge is asking for more.

 

You sir need to research Conley stays hurt