2020 Democratic Primary

This.

Which is why quite frankly some of the anti-Bernie sentiment in here doesn’t concern me one bit. Feel like I’ve seen some of you Trump supporters come with more substance on other topics, even if I disagree. Here though when it comes to why Bernie supposedly would be such a bad nominee for the democrats, I’m seeing a mix of conspiracy theory or illogical/anecdotal takes that don’t worry me.

Republicans having hidden dirt on Bernie, moreso than any other candidate, that they’re saving for the general? Naw, reading that on a forum isn’t going to register into my equation when voting. I’ll believe it when I see it. And mix that in with a claim that the Democratic establishment has dirt on Bernie too? No chance they even take the risk then. They hate Bernie. They would’ve sunk his campaign months ago if they could.

Stories that you’ve heard of Democrats not willing to vote for Bernie, or not knowing any Republicans who would vote for Bernie? Outside of personal anecdotes, this simply isn’t supported by the data. Bernie polls better than any other democratic candidate against Trump. He polls well with independents. When it comes to the Democratic vote there is this idea that
Bernie’s current lead doesn’t count because if you lumped all the moderate candidates votes together, they’d be in the lead. Firstly, in Nevada he won by such a landslide that you couldn’t really make that argument at all. But even if that wasn’t the case, voting doesn’t work like that, and the reality is that if all but one of the centrists dropped out, that vote would NOT coalesce behind the remaining centrist. Bernie is actually the second choice of many of the centrist supporters (Biden, for example). This is evidenced by Bernie getting the largest increase between rounds of the Nevada caucus, as non-viable candidates in the first round ended up throwing their support behind Bernie. Bernie also polls better than every other democratic candidate when you poll them head-to-head.

The response might be, well polls are inaccurate. Look what happened in 2016. But if you cite misleading polls in 2016, the prevalent thinking about that is that the Democratic establishment overstated Hilary’s support, and that many Trump supporters were part of a “silent majority” that would be more hesitant to proclaim their support to pollsters.

Don’t see how that would apply here. Sure Trump’s polling might still be understated, but that would apply globally to his numbers against all possible democratic candidates. But when you look at the Democratic pool itself, obviously Bernie is the anti-Establishment candidate so they’re not trying to prop him up in the polls. None of the other candidates are controversial or fostering a grassroots underground movement that would result in their support being understated in polls.

At the end of the day, this is what Buttigieg is banking on. The idea that Bernie is unelectable and won’t get support against Trump. It reeks of desperation. How can you claim you’d get more votes against Trump than Bernie ... when Bernie is already getting more votes against you? Clearly the pool of voters that would want to vote against Trump in the general have so far made their voices apparent in the primary that Bernie is their choice.

Sure, there might be a minority of Democrats that “wouldn’t vote for a socialist”. Maybe some Buttigieg or Biden supporters that would refuse to back Bernie in the general. I would say that number is much smaller than the number of Bernie supporters (who clearly are already the plurality so far) who would stay home in the general if the DNC rigs the primary against Bernie. And it’s shaping up that un-Democratic DNC shenanigans would be the only way one of the other candidates would get the nomination. Even beyond Bernie supporters who would then split from the Democratic Party, I think many independents would also be turned off by seeing the Democratic establishment reject the candidate with the most votes (especially when that would highlight their hypocrisy considering that they have been whining about how Hilary won the popular vote in 2016).

 

This is why I earlier made a reference to the Pied Piper strategy that Hillary used on the Republicans



She tried to get someone like Trump nominated because she thought an extreme candidate would be easier for her to beat than a more moderate Republican and it blew up in her face

Now Trump is trying to get a more "extreme" liberal nominated because he thinks he'll be easier to beat.

And I said it would be funny if it backfired on him the way that it backfired on HRC

Bernie has a huge disadvantage going against Trump... he's honest compared to the rest of the candidates, and he won't fight as dirty as they will.

You can all disagree on whether Bernie's plans are realistic or achievable, but most cannot deny that he's a decent person.

If Bernie gets the nomination, the race will become a referendum on America.

Do we prefer character and human decency?... or do we care about pragmatism and profit?

I'm hoping human decency wins for a change, but probably the smart money should be on greed.

 

Trump is a mastermind. He's congratulating Bernie because he wants to turn this into a Bernie vs DNC thing. If Bernie wins, great, the DNC is the enemy. If Bernie doesn't win, Trump can convince the Bernie supporters that the DNC is corrupt and thus, they should vote for Trump or just not vote at all. The biggest factor in the Democratic race right now will depend on Joe Biden. I can see a lot of Biden supporters flocking to Bloomberg because they would have nowhere else to go. Warren isn't left enough to win over Bernie's supporters and she's too left for many moderates. She has no chance of winning Republican votes since Trump has completely embarrassed Warren and her lies. If it comes down to Bernie, Trump would have so much material to completely dismantle Bernie. Even the liberal media thinks Bernie would be a terrible idea for America. I can't see how moderates/independents can side with Bernie on his issues when he can't even tell the American people how much his plans would cost and how exactly he plans on funding them. Remember, spending bills are done via Congress. Bernie's going to have to be able to convince a very divided group of Democrats AND Republicans who already dislike him. Good luck. If you thought Obama couldn't get bipartisanship in Congress, what makes you think Bernie can convince anyone?

 

You have to remember that young people overwhelmingly support Bernie's platform.

Precisely because of income inequality, they don't care what happens to the economy because they don't have anything to lose in the first place.

The moderate Dems will continue to die off and maybe not this election but in 4 or 8 years... the Bernie/AOC faction will probably be in charge.

Bernie will be too old or dead by then, but he has jumpstarted a movement.

Even though I'm a hardcore liberal... I don't want our economy to crash... but a correction is coming soon regardless of who is in power. In a way... it would be better for the Republicans to lose this one because we are going to see a huge recession if not outright depression necessary to correct the runaway gains of the past years. If Bernie wins... good chance he ends up with a Carter like situation... where a good man is presiding over a pure sh!t storm economically. If Trump wins... be careful what you wish for because the bubble is going to burst.

All I care about is that we redistribute more money from the superwealthy. I'm not even talking about millionaires... I'm talking about multibillionaires.

I wouldn't touch the money of 99.9% of the population... I'd start with the very top only.

A Bernie presidency might be rocky as hell... could even be outright failure... but anything is better than this corporate run government we are faced with now.

 

I don’t think Trump wants Bernie. There was a recording leaked from 2016 where he was relieved Hillary didn’t pick Bernie for VP because he thought Bernie had a good shot at appealing to his base with similar trade policies.

Trump is betting on the DNC rigging this against Bernie. He’s planting the seeds that the DNC is corrupt and anti-Bernie so that if it happened, Bernie supporters wouldn’t turn out to vote blue in the general. Some (possibly myself) might even give a protest vote to Trump in that scenario rather then fall in line and vote for Bloomberg.

Bernie’s rise feels very Trump-esque to me. Disregard him at your own risk Trump supporters.

 

You can't make this up.

 

I have zero respect for Democrat politicians at present. As a party, their behavior has been really disgraceful.

Trump has been effective in many ways, but acts very unpresidential.

it’s hard to get excited about elections when the options are a joke.

 

If that is true, he should have run as a Republican.

 

Too funny, what school do you attend?

 

But, I would say that the state of our political system required an outsider with balls to come in and shake things up. He is NOT a politician and sucks at being PC. He acts like your BS buddy who says every dang thing that pops in his mind. He is what he is, but I still think he is more direct and less of a phony than the rest of them. And that includes other Republicans.

 

I have an Engineering degree from UCLA. I consider myself educated. I am willing to admit that I don’t follow politics as closely as sports, for example. I think we’d be better off if more people could admit that instead of pretending like they are aware of all the moving parts and details involved in understanding politics. Especially when nobody is as unbiased as they think, and we all have our preferred echo chambers and sources of fake news.

Now did you have any actual response, or just a veiled insult of my intelligence?

 

I also have a degree from UCLA in comparative literature

https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...cated-voters-hold-the-keys-to-the-white-house

https://www.theatlantic.com/educati...cation-gap-explains-american-politics/575113/

 

Not only did they scream Russia, but they also screamed “abolish the electoral college, Hilary should’ve won via popular vote!”

And are now preparing themselves to deny a candidate who is on pace to win the popular vote.

But to answer your question, how do they do it? Easy. Stop listening to their inner circles of elites and instead listen to the plurality of their base that never cared about all the manufactured outrage and just want policies that help working America.

 

I wasn't insulting your intelligence, I was pointing out that your demographic was that of a young student and I suspect you are not a homeowner who has as big a financial risk. That is all. Anyone who is a Bernie supporter has given up on the USA and their dream of home ownership and financial success. The minute you have financial success in any real form, you will stop wanting to give your money to others who have no stake in your future.

 

That’s painting with a very broad stroke

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up, my bad for misunderstanding. Yup, I am not a homeowner.

But yeah, I don’t agree. I feel like I’m doing pretty well financially and have a career path that I’m confident will leave me quite comfortable. But I still don’t think I’ll achieve the level of immense wealth where programs like Bernie’s would have me paying significantly for the welfare of others. On the otherhand, the status quo has us continuing to get drained by corporations from various industries that have no stake in our future.

No offense if you’re actually super wealthy and this doesn’t apply to you, if so then more power to you. But I feel like conservative politics are often meant to make you feel like you’re on the team of the wealthy, when in reality you’re not. Identify as you belong to the 1% and trying to protect yourself against an onslaught of poor freeloaders. When actually you might share more in common with those “freeloaders” you’ve been pit against. Ending up in driving policies that only further divide the gap between yourself and the 1% you think you belong with.

Which of Bernie’s policies do you think is going to result in you giving money to others with no stake in your future?

And is your gripe specifically with Bernie or Democrats as a whole? Because the “moderate” democrats are often just advocating for half-assed versions of Bernie’s policies that give concessions to the corporations and institutions that fund them.