2020 Democratic Primary

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion and Philosophy' started by Helljumper, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. Helljumper

    Helljumper - Lakers Starter -

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    We have a Trump thread so figure why not one for the opposition. I’d have to imagine that LB isn’t only full of conservative Trump supporters.

    I’m really interested to see how this all shakes out. Bernie is clearly establishing himself as the front runner, yet the Democratic establishment is going crazy over this. Fox News surprisingly (maybe not so surprising) gives Bernie fairer coverage than CNN or MSNBC. When Biden was seen as the front runner, any attacks on Biden were seen as sacrilege because we should be united and not criticize the guy who we’ll need to beat Trump. Now that Bernie is in the lead, CNN is leading the charge on the anti-Bernie slander. Everything is under the guise of “Well you know Republicans are going to say X, Y, and Z” ... but right now that is the lefts way of saying X, Y, and Z. For example the ridiculous socialist talking point. Chris Matthews was playing dumb and saying he doesn’t know what Bernie means by socialism and is fearful he might be the kind that is going to have rich people like himself executed in the streets...

    Well anyways, as you can probably tell, Bernie is my guy. I’m not much of a fan of anyone else still in there. I did like Yang and hopes he continues to be involved in politics. He’s not just a simplistic “let’s give free money to everyone” guy. There is actual logic behind the UBI idea and even if you don’t agree with that, I think he presents a fresh perspective and highlights the real problems on our horizon rather than making this a simplistic anti-Trump thing.

    Im curious if anyone here supports Buttigieg or Biden. I’d love to hear why.
     
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  2. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    The GOP and GOP news outlets (Fox News) believe Trump will destroy Bernie. So of course they are more willing to give him a platform.

    Iowa and New Hampshire are proof that the media and the fake polls have been propping up Biden, just as they did with Hillary in 2016.

    Buttigieg is probably the best chance the DNC have to win an upset against Trump. A younger moderate candidate who doesn't sound as crazy to middle america. No offense to Bernie, but he's a 78 year old socialist who just had a heart attack. It's part of the reason why Buttigieg has been neck and neck with him during the actual primary votes.
     
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  3. BangBoomPow

    BangBoomPow - Rookie -

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    I also liked Yang but most of his supporters are well-educated and informed. The problem is, the masses of America are ignorant and do not follow politics/issues around the world with a procedural insight. Yang's method of solving problems is like a math equation and people just don't understand how it would work. UBI, VAT tax, etc., are all foreign concepts to many Americans who only want to hear about the word "FREE."

    As for who can beat Trump, I think Amy has the best shot. Buttigieg is a phony and has no experience of any level doing anything at a competent level. He's a mayor of a very small town and IMO, he only served in the military to establish a political background.

    Bernie is a terrible candidate who just appeases the masses. It's tough not to win voters when your voters have $100k in student debt and you're promising to relieve them of it. For others who have to earn their money and did it the correct way, no way would Bernie get my vote. If he wins, America loses. His policies will cripple the economy and then when there isn't any money left, it will be too late.
     
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  4. Helljumper

    Helljumper - Lakers Starter -

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    Thanks for chiming in guys, even if I don’t necessarily agree.

    I’ve enjoyed reading some of the discussions in the Trump thread and think it’s important that both sides can simply acknowledge a difference in opinion rather than villainizing each other. Sure, there are racist Trump supporters who don’t care about the facts and just want whatever keeps them comfy and keeps their idol in power. There are dumb liberals who just want a free handout and are so blinded by their pseudo-wokeness and Trump derangement that they can’t objectively discuss policy. But that’s not the totality of either side.

    On the points raised, I just don’t see going to the middle and nominating a centrist as a winning strategy for the Dems. I mean yeah Hillary was set up perfectly for Trump to rile his base up against with the Clinton corruption ... but aside from that she had everything that you would want from a moderate democrat. Name recognition, bountiful funding and media-narrative pushing from the establishment, centrist policies, and a personality. Maybe not a likeable personality, but a personality. Buttigieg doesn’t have anywhere near the experience and comes across as a typical politician who says grandiose things that sound good but don’t mean anything. Klobuchar is just ... so bland. I don’t see them drawing enough turnout. The only way they win is if the anti-Trump sentiment is enough for them to coast on.

    With Bernie, I think he’d have that same baseline support of people who are going to vote against Trump no matter what. But he also excites the youth and will bring out the voters. I don’t see Democrat’s not voting for him because they see his policies as too left. Meanwhile I think whatever independents he loses for being a “socialist”, he also gains another branch of independents that realize he is fighting for the working class.

    Despite his age, I actually see him presenting a much more modern vision of our country. I don’t want to be stuck in a “red Commie man bad” kind of attitude that just perpetuates the uneven distribution of wealth and ever growing corporate influence over our lives. Redirect our love of the military industrial complex to the American people themselves. It’s possible, so many other countries do it.

    I also very strongly disagree with the sentiment that college students who want their loans forgiven are lazy and the older generation “earned” their money the correct way. That older generation who made their money and survived the financial strains of college are the ones who perpetuates this idea that a 4 year degree is necessary to my generation. We were brought up believing we had to go to college and sign up for excessive debt (which is more than what the older generation had to pay for college), and we were steered into this path before we were even adults. Hi naive child, sign up for $200k in debt so you can get a piece of paper that won’t get you a decent job in this economy that we’ve rigged against you, this economy we’ve grandfathered ourselves into whose rules are drastically different from the time we were able to establish our success.

    With that said, I don’t personally care that much about student loan forgiveness or if it passes. But I don’t agree with simplistically dismissing the sentiment behind it as people wanting handouts.

    On this topic though, going back to what I liked about Yang. I don’t think he wanted to promise free tuition, because he understood that college was not the model that many people need. We shouldn’t necessarily funnel more people into college. For many, trade schools or other avenues will better prepare them for the economy. I also think that if we do move forward with free tuition based on the idea that a college tuition cripples our youth financially, we also have to look into why that is. Many colleges, even public ones, inflate costs for significant profit. I don’t necessarily want the government to blindly agree to fund the cost that these educational institutions dictate. Demand fair costs out of them first.
     
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  5. BangBoomPow

    BangBoomPow - Rookie -

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    1) I agree with your sentiments about Pete. 100% phony who doesn't seem like he really understands the issues.
    2) The problem with Hillary was her poor campaigning strategy (choosing not to entertain many swing states) and she had too much baggage. People simply didn't trust her given the negative history she has, whether warranted or unwarranted, experienced.
    3) I dislike Amy but she's well-spoken, well-connected, and there isn't much, if any, baggage to her. Of any candidate able to swing some independents towards them instead of Trump, I believe Amy has the best shot. Bernie/Elizabeth are both too leftist (though Elizabeth quickly switches sides when it is convenient), Biden is way too senile and can't even construct a proper sentence without looking like he forgot his medication, and though I do like Bloomberg, I think him being a wealthy Wall Street beneficiary will turn a lot of Democrat voters away.
    4) I was young enough to understand that if I ever wanted to make my time in college useful, it would have to be through a career that is worthwhile. You don't hear about engineers, accountants, finance-related, medical professionals, lawyers, computer science, math majors, and the-like not be able to pay off their student debt. Student debt only exists because people don't understand the objective of going to college. You're not going there for an education primarily. You're going there to gain connections, career opportunities, networking, and a certification. I've learned more outside of college than I did during. You've admitted it yourself with your last paragraph. For many, trade schools or other avenues will better prepare them for the economy! 100% true. And that's where people have to realize that college is not for everybody. Less demand for college = lower pricing. Students today need to understand that college isn't for everybody nor should it be. You can still be employed and earn a lot of money doing the things you love without incurring ANY college debt. Is college a scam? No. It's expensive but it isn't a scam. Students know the price and sign off on the loans they've agreed to take on. Student loan forgiveness = other taxpayers are paying for your mistakes. If I knew my student loans would eventually be forgiven, I would have spent every single dollar on a nice car, nice vacation, buy some Lakers season ticket passes, and I'll end up in the same debt predicament as someone who worked hard trying to pay down their debt. How is that fair? It isn't. BTW, in NYC, you get paid to attend a CUNY institution if you and your parents cannot afford it. The problem is, again, these students want to go a nice college where they can dorm, have fun, smoke some weed, and experience the "college" life. It's not necessary at all. There is a way to go to college and end up DEBT free... Most state public colleges are around $10-$15k annually at the most. Live at-home, get a job during the weekends, etc., and you will not have any debt. Choose to go to a private university, board-and-room, spend any money that your parents sent you on booze and weed... well, sorry but that's $ you don't need to spend but chose to.
     
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  6. Helljumper

    Helljumper - Lakers Starter -

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    I guess I should have prefaced my opinion and support for Bernie with my pessimism about this election as a democrat. I think Trump’s base is much larger than I thought and many of them are devoted to the guy. And love him or hate him, the fact is that Trump is great at this. He knows how to rile his base up and how to play the media like a fiddle to spread his message for him. I think Trump probably has the election in his bag.

    So for the Democrats to stand a chance, in my opinion you have to go left. Try to play Trump’s game a bit at the other extreme. Get a candidate who actually draws attention and excites segments of the base. Going moderate and milquetoast as possible isn’t going to get it done. I also think you are mistaking “independent” for “conservative”. I don’t think all independents are necessarily people with conservative ideals that don’t like Trump. I think a good portion of them are just disillusioned by the political system. Like Trump, this appeal to how corrupt and broken our system is, is actually the foundation of Bernie’s ideology. I think that’s what drew a lot of people to Trump rather than the actual conservative policies he’s now behind (and Trump has shown at this point now that he’s a parasite in a symbiotic relationship with the established political system, not someone who will try to fix it). So I think many independents could be swayed by progressive policy if they see how it benefits the working class. Especially when it’s coming from in my opinion the most honest candidate, in terms of how earnest Bernie seems in his convictions.

    I do like Amy more than Pete because she’s much more honest and transparent for her moderate (sometimes downright conservative) policies. But I don’t think she wins, and I think Trump eats her up in a debate.

    And I know I shouldn’t be so influenced by something like this, but for some reason this really annoys me and makes me dislike her...



    I can’t really disagree with anything else you said by the way
     
  7. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers All Star -

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    Tulsi was perfect IMO, but Killary hates her so
     
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  8. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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  9. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff LB Facebook Editor

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    Is Duterte serious about making the Philippines a province of China? Or was that propaganda?

    :ShaqOh2:

    because I lose interest in living there if China takes over
     
  10. KareemtheGreat33

    KareemtheGreat33 - Lakers All Star -

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    The guy likes to rile up people and have a lot of critics. That obviously is not only treason but violates several international law btw lol.
     
  11. JohnnyComeLately2k6

    JohnnyComeLately2k6 - Rookie -

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    He is either trolling his critics (to anger them), being sarcastic (to make fools look more foolish than they already are), or both.
     
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  12. acetabulum7

    acetabulum7 - Rookie -

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    BangBoomPow what do you like about Bloomberg? I haven't been following much other than seeing him getting roasted yesterday.
     
  13. BangBoomPow

    BangBoomPow - Rookie -

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    I wouldn't say I like him as much as I admire him compared to the rest. Regardless of what anyone wants to say, no candidate on that stage is more intelligent than Bloomberg. They're not on the same stratosphere. Bloomberg speaks on another level of a language none of them will ever be able to understand. I've listened to many of his interviews in podcasts, speeches, etc., and if you're interested in understanding finance and increasing your networth, Bloomberg is truly a mastermind. Now, politically, I understand the baggage. He's just an easy target because a billionaire running as a Democrat while preaching about income inequality is a bullseye on his back. Bloomberg didn't grow up wealthy - he earned every bit of it. Socially, he's quite liberal. He took over as mayor post-9/11 and did an incredible job so much so that he was allowed to run for a third-term. I think I speak for a lot of NY'ers in saying that many of us appreciate the work he did here. People hate his stop-and-frisk policy but post 9/11 and due to an increase of crime, stop-and-frisk absolutely helped. It wasn't even his policy - it had been done before. But the objective of it was to target those who were MOST LIKELY to commit a crime and the only way to do that was based on data. The data showed that minorities in POOR neighborhoods were most likely to commit a crime and thus, more police officers were deployed in these areas which led to people thinking it was racial profiling since there were mainly minorities. It's common sense, really. The result was crime decreased significantly and the majority of NY'ers felt safer. Schools vastly improved since there was more pressure on poor-performing schools to meet certain standards. I'm serious when I say this, Bloomberg is probably one of the all-time great NY leaders. He just knew what he was doing. When we compare him to De-Blasio, there is no comparison. But I'm afraid Bloomberg's wealth and data-driven approach to solving issues won't convince the Democratic party that they should vote for him. So I won't say I like him because I do think he's bringing a ton of baggage with him but you have to admire the guy - especially if you are a NY'er.
     
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  14. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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  15. Sentient Meat

    Sentient Meat - Rookie -

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  16. BangBoomPow

    BangBoomPow - Rookie -

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  17. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    If Bernie wins, Trump will be president for four more years. I've heard former Democratic insiders say the Democrats and the Republicans have a a large file on Bernie that will destroy him. The Democrats can't use it in case he goes through, but Trump will nuke him back into the Stone Age in the first week and continue to nuke him until the election. Bloomberg can beat Trump.
     
  18. Sentient Meat

    Sentient Meat - Rookie -

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    I thought so too... but it seems the centrist Democrat and corporate media MSNBC and CNN strategy of trashing Bernie is having the opposite effect
    Young people do not watch or trust cable news which is why they better adjust soon or be left behind like all old paradigm media.

    I would say Trump is the favorite... but I would have thought having the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC constantly hammering away on Bernie would have eroded his popularity by now.

    The irony in all this is that Hillary used the Pied Piper strategy to "defeat" a more extreme candidate in 2016

    Now Trump is hyping Bernie thinking he will be easier to beat than someone like Bloomberg or Biden.

    It would be pretty funny if Trump is Pied Pipering the wrong candidate like Hillary did.
     
  19. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

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    If I'm a Bernie supporter, I'd be worrying less about Trump and more about the DNC.
     
  20. BangBoomPow

    BangBoomPow - Rookie -

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    The Bernie vs Trump will be tricky. I know Democrats who will vote for Trump or just not vote at all if Bernie is their nominee. This is in NYC where Democrats will undoubtedly win anyways so I'm not sure how it translates to other areas of America. I don't know any Republicans who will vote for Bernie if he is the Democratic nominee. They would more likely switch to Bloomberg, Pete, or even Biden. As much as Nancy hates Trump, deep down, she probably dislikes Bernie winning even more. Also, Trump hasn't even started with attacking Bernie. Most of Trump's attacks have been towards Biden, Warren, and Bloomberg.
     

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