2019/20 Players' Transactions: Breaking News , Trades, Free Agents, And Rumors

If Kawhi were healthy and playing right now, I doubt there would be anyone questioning a trade for him.

And yeah, the Spurs could be screwing with him, but I have a hard time with that at this point. The Spurs are known as one of the best run organizations in the league.

In all honesty, I expect Pop and Co to swoop in and patch this whole thing up over the summer. Hard for me to buy them trading Kawhi to us no matter who we rolled out there even if Kawhi insists on it.

 

I'm also not sure our players are being overrated. Again, if the rumors were for say Anthony Davis, I think most of the board would be perfectly okay with that even if it involved one of their favorite young guys.

 

that was a LOT of rambling

 

Elgin, this poll was taken roughly a month ago and the fact that option C beat out option B and option A and D are so close together pretty much spells out that a majority of Laker fans are baked AF...I woulda felt better about the poll if it was conducted today...But Laker fans are definitely overvaluing our talent...You know the talent that just won 35 games this year.



I'm with Doc, wcsoldier and anybody that isn't completely overvaluing our young stable of horses...you gotta strike when you got the chance. Shaq was a free agent, but Kobe was a trade. We hadn't secured Shaq yet via free agency when we traded our starting center (Vlade) for the 13th overall pick (Kob). West had the balls to make that risky trade and it paid off in spades. Our FO made a risky trade to clear the deck for free agents this summer, so we played the long game compared to JW, but in the process, we gained Kuz, Hart, TB, Frye and Lopez as well as the 25th overall pick and a contingency in IT. If we played the waiting game to see if Bron/PG will choose us, then we probably overpay in a trade this summer to make it happen, losing even more assets than we gained last summer. Think of the dynamic Zo, Kuz, Hart and BI developed this last year...imagine that type of dynamic with DLo replacing either Kuz or Hart (depending on how you want to look at how we dealt with the 27th or 28th pick). Its known that DLo and Zo threw shade at each other and that BI didn't like playing with DLo. Now replace BLo with Moz and holy s*** do we even win 35 games this season? Are we still bottom feeders on defense? Would our young guns develop a healthy chemistry with each other? Would the culture be a whole lot different? Would FAs look at us differently? Would FAs even grant us a meeting knowing we didn't have the cap space (MozDeng still on the books) as of yet.

I understand the angst with why folks wouldn't want to give up assets knowing that we could just wait to add the talent to our core without giving up those same assets to get a guy like Kawhi. However, if this PG situation is any indication, we could just wait and keep waiting. I firmly believe we tried to trade for PG and offered Clarkson and/or Randle, but Pritchard wanted the silver platter as well and we knew via Mintz that PG was hellbent on coming to LA, so why give up more assets just to get him here. Our mind was made up on Jules and JC, and JC got traded and its still TBD to see what we do with Jules, but I'm certain we match any offer sheet for him and then decide on keeping him or trading him later depending on the price point of his deal. You just can't let talent go for nothing, especially if our window is to win now with this 2max slot we created. We probably believe strongly that George will choose us in free agency, which is why we didn't press harder to trade for him.

But just like trading for Kawhi now, just think that if PG was already on the roster, Bron to LA is most likely a certainty and any disgruntled star starts looking at LA in a different way. You just need that first domino to fall. As Laker fans, we need to start swallowing our ego and go for talent that will make us better. Yall didn't want Rondo, but heck, imagine that dude on this roster mentoring and even taking over a fragile Zo during the season....we'd be talking about Playoff Rondo rather than Playoff P failing for that opportunistic OKC group that swooped in to get him. I'm happy management was looking at someone like Rajon, but he overlooked us last summer cause we didn't have the right pieces in play...but lets say that PG trade went through, then maybe he chooses to come on board. And remember who else followed Rondo to the Pels when he called Rondo the best teammate he's ever had while he was in Chicago. Niko was had for a 1st rounder and a salary dump (Asik)....I love what Rob and Magic have done so far, but lets say we pair that 1st round Cavs pick along with our salary dump candidate and another future pick, maybe MiroSchick is ours and we have his shooting and surprisingly good defensive play as a Jules contingency for this summer. These 1st round picks are not so valuable to a team that is in win now mode, but maybe Niko didn't want to be LA bound cause we didn't have the right horses for him to taste the postseason this year. That 1st domino needs to drop and then our fortunes start to turn.

We need to make moves and we can't keep falling in love with potential, that to date, has only won 35 games. I'm not saying just dump our youngns in a Deng dump, but if you do get rid of them, then you gotta bring in talent that helps us win now. Look around the league...the Wiz, Bucks and Torn City are self destructing...KAT and Hassan don't like their coaches, DeAndre doesn't feel wanted... There are plenty of dudes that will be disgruntled and we can't be too in love with our youth to not be opportunistic.

 

I'm against giving up any of our core 5 youth except maybe Jules if it get's us the 2 FAs and rid of Deng with no stretch. I still think we can offload Deng without a stretch if Rob pulls off another Biblical Exodus.

A possible scenario is this, and I realize this is the kind that's very hard to completely control as it depends on the decisions of many rather than a few, is resign Jules. Since it''s not a super max we can still sign say LBJ (assuming he's sold on the plan). At the trade deadline package Jules, and any picks we have, maybe Zo or Bryant, depending, as a sweetener, and of course, Deng who now has basically just the final year remaining of his deal and very well might play serviceable ball still in the right system as a backup PF or whatever. Picks and and a youthful piece (say Zu) offset the last year of the Deng contract at a decent value. Star PF or Center gained.

Around the league, we will still have a disgruntled Kawhi and PG may very well resign a one year deal with OKC this summer to give them a last chance. They may not look so good come next February still toting around Melo. SAS has a disgruntled Aldridge who is not likely to feel better about his situation there given Kawhi's looming exit. Pau's entering his twilight years. This gives SAS a new star tweener @ PF or center, a SF or backup PF of questionable value (Pop does well with old guys) , some picks and some other youthful big (say Zu). In OKC it gives them something good where they would have nothing if PG also gives them an "LA only" ultimatum.

Just a scenario in which we give up Jules yes, but get 2 Max FAs and don't stretch. But we also get to see if Jules makes another jump like he did last summer as an added benefit. If he does, and his contract is say 16 mil per instead of a super max...

 

Yeah. That poll is crazy and completely cuts off my point there. Yikes.

I’ve always been okay with trades though so you guys really don’t have to sell me on that part of it. I would have been okay with letting one of the young guys go for George honestly.

My hang up with Kawhi is strictly based off health and current mental state. If we do our due diligence and everything is okay with him then you won’t see any complaints from me.

 

@ElginTheGreat yeah, you're super level-headed imho and I was just using your post as a jump off to address some Looney Tunes fans we have that are very much in love with our youth. Btw, what does the LT stand for @LTLakerFan?

Haha, I'm just messing with ya Brodie!

 

busted

 

What I think is going to happen is that Magic and Rob are going to be patient about this and smart and not go off half cocked with what SA would want from the Lakers right now for Kawhi. Painful as f*** for us I'm sure. Rather they are going to now wait to see as I said I would want to see before choosing the one main young guy to keep (with Lonzo being right up there of course) .... just who stepped up or if they all stepped up this summer and what their new and improved bodies and games look like. These guys aren't dumb (Magic and Rob and Luke) and will want to see for as long as they can just how good everyone is projecting to be in the future. That's what the cap space is for this summer. Just my opinion. Magic's not going to challenge them to be great here as Lakers and then blow out 2 or 3 of them this early without seeing first. Not prudent. Cap space Baby.

 

BT and LT, I'm not saying your approach is wrong, it's just that my patience has worn thin and when opportunity presents itself, we need to strike.

The process took 7 years and they only hit on Embiid (still an injury concern) and Simmons (still no 3 ball in a 3 happy league). Jah out...Noel out...MCW out...Fultz TBD. Still, how does their window look if Boston gets healthy next year and they possibly trade for Kawhi or AD? Man f*** the process... We ain't got time for that s***... But process this - we're already 5 years into no postseason appearances, were in the lottery 4 times, had the #2 pick 3 times and still don't have a definitive all-star within the stable...Just how patient do you want to remain?

Golden State took 5 years in the making and took on a depleted Cavs roster to win their 1st title...You always hear about the Dubs being a Dray suspension away from winning 3 straight?? How about Cleveland was a Love and Ky for the entire series away from winning 2 straight before GS entered a cheat code that enabled them to a once in a cap-time salary spike in '16 to create their current dynasty. Yet even after all that, injuries and their upcoming decision on Klay and Dray could limit their window.

Other than these 2 examples, you can't predict/project a playoff window by developing your youth.

We took the opportunity to dump salary and replenish our youth last summer and we took it. Not being ranked last place on defense is great, but we've been locked out of the playoffs for 5 years now.

When opportunity presents itself again, we need to strike imho. The previous regime waited for that "perfect" time for far too long. Its time to get aggressive and create that "perfect" opportunity instead of waiting for it to come. Get that first domino and the rest will fall into place!

My dream scenario is to either pair Zo or BI with LaBron, AD and either Kawhi or George. If it's Klaw/Bron/AD, then that's 3 MVP type players on the roster...Yeah, we'd be a f***ing problem! I know, I know...its pipe, but guess what today is.

 

I'm just saying what I think Magic and Rob are going to do. Determine as much as they can for as long as they can just what they have in the young talent before they're willing to blow 2 or 3 more out in a trade unless they feel we have a great deal over and above what they do with the cap space. Unlike the impatience of which you speak.

 

I totally agree! It goes without saying, I have the utmost trust in our FO now! If they don't move on a superstar and instead stand pat, then as much as I think it's a mistake, there must have been a good reason for them to do it. I love all our trades and draft picks under the new regime! I got no complaints and if their plan comes to fruition next season, they deserve Executives of the Year recognition.

 

https://www.dailynews.com/2018/04/2...rd-is-available-just-maybe-not-to-the-lakers/

some truth here

 

How crazy and hilarious would it be for the SA fans to turn on Pop over his views on Trump of all people?

 

i'm not sure about that part. i keep seeing superstar potential being implied, and i don't see that on our roster.

i wasn't as convinced by your rebuttal as you were, but i already said i value lonzo a bit more than svtzr does. but not as much as the rest of the forum. we can't just stick our heads in the sand on those shooting percentages. they are a barrier to stardom, pure and simple. and yes, the FT% has been historically diagnostic. it seems odd, but guys who shoot really poorly from the ft line tend to project as bad shooters, whereas guys who shoot better from there tend to be able to get better from the field.

i don't think there are firm processes regarding the mental part. if he's right physically, you move what you need to. i'm disinterested in becoming the denver nuggets (capped out and in 9th place in two years).

i was just trying to explain how we think trading for established stars is a downgrade from where we are. gambling on leonard's mental state is much safer than gambling on kuz and ingram combining to be worth as much as leonard at any point in their careers, imo. again, if leonard's not right physically, i'm out--at any price.


anyway, some of this is left over from the summer, when we should have made stronger offers for paul george. as svtzr and i have both pointed out multiple times: the young guys are only bargain contracts for a short period of time. after that, they make as much money as superstars without actually being superstars. and that's how you denver nugget.

 

Haha, I'll see you there for episode 9 buddy!

I want to compete at the highest levels. So, I don't see it the way you do, I see an MVP caliber player as the house, not cost controlled assets. You contend with the best players in the league, not with young guys that have a lot of potential.

If a player breaks down to the point they can't play at all, their contract comes off the books and insurance covers the cost. Thomas' trade had nothing to do with health, it was about the 1st for us. Secondly, his physical on the Cavs/C Bags trade was flagged, so the Cavs got more assets because of it. It kind of proves the point on medicals, that teams generally discover problems.

It's a turn of phrase. None of us have talked to George or Kawhi personally over the last 3 months. So if we suspend our personal beliefs on where they want to be, we can assume they'd both like to play here based off reports. This isn't really a critical point however.

That's a really good point. I don't know the finer details of extensions, so I didnt comment on it before..

Dr Buss was always about taking calculated risks. This is one of those moves that changes a franchise. You trade for a 26 year old MVP candidate. If his health checks out, you look like a Genius as you stack your team and overtake the C Bags ring count. I know you understand how rare it is to get an MVP candidate at that age. This is a league-altering kind of trade.

You're right, Kuzma can continue to develop and in the past, I've been a main preacher on this forum with regards to not putting caps on our young players no matter how old or how many seasons. I genuinely believe players can continue to develop well into their 20s. At the same time, I'm REAListic (see what I did there), and understand sometimes players just don't get better. Time will tell and I certainly hope he becomes a great player.

Top rookies generally join bad teams and make rookie mistakes - because of the nature of advanced stats in those situations, they're usually not very telling to project a rookie. PER is a better barometer with rookies however and Lonzo ranks a bit lower than the others and lower than league average. But not by that much truthfully, if he could score an additional 5 points even on this bad effiency his PER would even out with the others.

I want to point out I said project offensively - can we make that clear - the reason why Westbrook and Wall project better offensively isn't in the advanced stats so much but rather in their raw play. Both Westbrook and Wall both scored over 15 points, got to the FT line 6 times a game and showed that they could be scorers in this league while assisting at a high level.

Also I want to make it clear, I haven't minimized his impact, I made numerous comments on his defense and his playmaking and I said he had great instincts.

I've got some issues with this section.

I don't know understand how being a poor ft shooter can be a horrible argument for efficiency. Literally, the most efficient shots shown by analytics is FT's and 3's - Harden is about to win an MVP by spamming these shots. All great players build efficiency on the pillar of getting to the FT line and converting gimmes at high levels. Saying it's ridiculous is just ignoring key factors of basketball for the sake of an argument and you're better than that.

I'm not looking at overall FTa's over a season but FT's per game. Why penalize a player who missed a bunch of games? Lonzo clearly doesn't get to the line like the other star players which is a huge deterrent to being a great offensive player. Secondly, why is your point that they got to the FT line a ridiculous amount of times more than Lonzo a good one? He can't get to the line well and when he does he shoots badly there. I think it was Vas that showed he took more 3's than 2's, well looking at this deeper, he took twice as many 3's as shots at the rim and this is a pretty big reason why he didn't get to the line and perhaps shows that he isn't elite at getting to the rim. For someone who shoots 30% or worse from 3, that's not good decision making. Going further on from this, I don't buy being skinny as a reason not to get to the line, Westbrook and Wall were thin too in their rookie years - almost everyone is.

Okay, so you bring up December to March and say he shot 33% over that period. First of all, he missed almost half the games from December to March, so there is context to that stat, it wasn't a full 4 months of 33% shooting how you painted it out, it was 31 games at that level - which is more like a month and a half of playing time. I'm not trying to penalize him for missing time, that's not my attention, it's more so trying to give context on the real amount of games.

Secondly, he shot 190 threes over that time period, hitting on 63 of those - which is your 33%. But if you take out his hot streak after he got back on 23rd of Feb and the next two weeks, you get 21/42 - a 50% stretch. Once you take that out, you get 28% for your Dec-Mar selection and 27% from 3 over the year. Everyone knows streaky shooters get hot for a little while.

Lastly when did shooting 30% from 3 and 45% from the FT over a year inspire confidence as a shooter? That's lousy man, we should hold someone who jacks up 300 threes in a season to a higher standard than that. Being great at college isn't a sign of what's to come in the NBA otherwise half of those elite college shooters would be forces in the league.

Taking less volume from 3's when you're a bad shooter is smart, it's not okay to do the opposite. Westbrook and Wall took 1/3 of the 3's Ball did. Lebron took 100 less. It's not great shot selection and we've seen it with our eyes, at certain points Ball just jacks up a shot from 6ft behind the 3 point line.

Usually the league average is around 36% from 3 since the 1995. So shooting 35% isn't impressive. Shooting 40%, now we're talking about a good shooter. Jason Kidd did it twice in Dallas at 34/35 (two other seasons he did it, he only played 30 games due to injuries, so that's not indicative). Lebron has shot 2 good seasons as a shooter in Miami, and he has been poor to average otherwise, his 2016 season was almost as bad as his rookie season. It's a big debate on forums everywhere and he generally isn't considered a great shooter, his jumpshot goes missing some years in large due to inconsistent mechanics, but it doesn't matter with his skillset. So my point is basically, apart from the few small examples, the norm is bad shooters don't really become great shooters and I think that's clear to everyone.

I'd prefer if you don't twist my words around. I said he wasn't super athletic at his position - no where did I say he wasn't athletic. He isn't a Rose or a Westbrook or a Wall. He won't jump out the gym and he won't beat you down the floor, he doesn't have the balance of a Nash either. He isn't some stand out athletic PG, where we are blown away by what he can do. No need to give it a condescending edge and say I didn't watch the guy play.

Ingram shot bad, but he showed flashes of what he could do in his rookie year, an example is going toe to toe with Durant. His shot selection was better 500 2's to 190 3's. He shot as many shots at the rim as he did from 3. Lonzo finished 49% of shots at rim, while Ingram finished 61%. Also if stretches of shooting are improtant to you, there was a period of a full month and a half where he shot 36% from 3. These points project better and give hope that a player will improve. I don't do this to downgrade Lonzo, he just wasn't a good scorer or shooter and I want to defend my position on that.

Your last sentence is false. Our breakdown of Lonzo is similar, I've stated in all my posts he is a great playmaker, a good defender and has huge instinct. So unless we don't agree on those points my overall breakdown of Lonzo's values and abilities aren't wrong.

I've never said Lonzo wasn't a good defender. He has been really impressive on that end. We're lucky that both Ingram and Lonzo are good on that end.

I can't take advanced stats in this instance overly seriously. So much of advanced stats are dictated by context and the team around a player. We had both players miss significant time and a whole bunch of other players miss signifcant time as well - so DRTG, DBPM, DWS are all kind of difficult to assess clearly. What I'm asking is, you really want to compare arbitrary stats like 0.8 blocks per game to 0.7 as a big determining factor? I don't care if Lonzo had more games with 4 or more blocks, they have a difference of 0.1 blocks per game over a season. It's kind of moot to compare blocks. Steals, I did admit that Lonzo was clearly better at that.

But all in all, Ingram defended the better player and I was happy at his progress on that end. Neither are slouches there.

Once again, please don't twist my words. When did I ever say Ingram is better with the ball? I said Lonzo is clearly a better playmaker. A blind racoon can see that. Why would we compare them. I just said don't use points like Lonzo had half as many turnovers as Ingram did. On a per year comparison this year (Ingram played PG for stretches), they have similar TOs, while Ingram had 60% of the assists Lonzo had. That number could probably get to 70% if Ingram played more PG across the year. I think that's a fair comparison and shows how much better of a playmaker Lonzo is. My only point is Ingram isn't terrible in that area either. I think that's a fair point and nothing ground breaking here.

I touched upon this above, there are some key differences that gave Ingram hope at being better. Firstly, shot selection was MUCH better by Ingram in their rookie season comparison. He also finished at a much better level at the rim, shot better from 3 for a longer stretch and shot better from the FT line overall.

I never said Lonzo was a bad prospect, I just stated my preference for what I think is succesful in this league and who I'd prefer.

I can understand this completely. I would just be willing to take the risks for Durant, Curry, AD, Harden and Kawhi regardless of their contract situations. I believe we'll resign any of them if they get here. Agree to disagree.

Not sure if you watch Lebron play, he eats up most of his team's possessions with the ball in his hands. It's kind of his thing. He has had some truly awful players bring the ball up for him, I don't see that as an issue.

A team with Lebron makes sense when he is surrounded by shooters and has a secondary creator or two to offload on some possessions or when he is on the bench. Ingram can shoot, Kawhi can shoot, Lopez can shoot and in my scenario I had Danny Green too, who can shoot.

My reasoning was Lonzo can't shoot, so when the play slows down, teams help off of him. You'd also have Green and Hart providing defence on guards, so it's not like Lonzo would be terribly missed on that end. I don't buy that it's an awful team makeup as you've made it sound.

As I said above, I think saying the team makeup is awful is an exaggeration.

From what I understand, you can go over the cap to sign someone you have bird rights for, like in Randle's situation. Not sure how you fit Lebron (35), Kawhi (30), George (30), Lonzo (8), Lopez (15) all under the cap to actually make it work. But if it's possible (and not with every player leaving a ton on the table and Lopez signing for the vet min) sign me up! I just don't see how that's possible.