2016 Rumor Mill: Trades and Players to Watch

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by Doc Brown, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. revgen

    revgen - Lakers 6th Man -

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    1,833
    Likes Received:
    4,203
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Agreed. Especially if Byron is still here. Okafor needs a stronger cultural environment like he had at Duke. Like San Antonio (Pop) or Miami (Riley). We're a mess.
     
    therealdeal likes this.
  2. fabfourlakers

    fabfourlakers - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,602
    Likes Received:
    8,202
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    That's not the point. If we had the pick guaranteed, no way would I even think about trading it for Okafor.

    But since we could LOSE the pick....it's a good risk for us to take....and who better than to trade with the Sixers, the team that could get the pick from us if it falls outside the top 3? Why not ease their mind and say hey, go ahead and take this pick....and now you'll have two guaranteed top 5 picks (if we finish with the 2nd worst record and they finish with the worst record).
     
    OmarE likes this.
  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Also I'm quite a Randle fan. I'm not sure Okafor ends up being a better player. There's very few guys I'd trade Randle for and Okafor would be, at best, a lateral move I think.
     
    TIME likes this.
  4. KobeAnd8

    KobeAnd8 Guest

    Offline
    I wouldn't mind trading for Okafor. Okafor is producing RIGHT NOW compared to our young players. On top of that, we have wayyyyyyyyy too many young guys to develop. Why not unload some of our young guys and develop like 3 or 4 young guys instead of trying to develop 5 or 6? Seems like Okafor is already better than Roy Hibbert at the very least and he's only gonna get better.
     
    John3:16 likes this.
  5. John3:16

    John3:16 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    6,590
    Likes Received:
    15,642
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    CEO - Big Baller Brand
    Offline
    I'd trade Randle and anyone not named Clarkson or Russell for Okafor in a heartbeat.
     
  6. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,178
    Likes Received:
    18,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    A few interesting suggestions here regarding Okafor. I don't know that he's available, so I won't address that aspect. I do, however, want to discuss the impact of Okafor vs. Randle.

    If we look at the raw numbers, there's one that really jumps out at people: it's Okafor's scoring.
    Okafor vs. Randle
    30.4 MPG 27.3
    17.1 PPG 11.1
    1.2 APG 1.7
    7.4 RPG 10.0
    0.4 SPG 0.6
    1.2 BPG
    0.4
    49% FGs 42%
    68% FTs 70%

    Okafor has one borderline elite stat for a big - his points per game. Okafor is 33rd in the league in scoring, and he's tied for 3rd (according to ESPN) in PPG by a Center. Randle's scoring is 17th among PFs, and it's tied for 105th in the league. Okafor isn't an elite player in any aspect of his game (more on this in a bit), but Randle already is. Randle is currently 10th in rebound per game, and his rebound rate is higher than every player averaging at least 25 MPG except Whiteside, DeAndre, and Drummond.

    Now, Randle has played 3 mpg fewer than Okafor, and that's not (Lakers fans know) because Julius doesn't deserve more minutes. So, let's look at the players in terms of their per100 possession performance to smooth out some of those pace and mpg differences.

    Okafor vs. Randle
    27.7 Points 20.3
    24.0 FGA 19.0
    5.8 FTA 6.1
    11.9 REB 18.2
    2.0 AST 3.1
    1.9 BLK
    0.7
    0.7 STL 1.2

    Okafor does score significantly more, and I give players props for being able to put up a shot every (just less than) 4 minutes and shoot near 50%. Randle's no slouch in scoring though, and he does it on a shot not quite every five minutes. Their FTA rate is similar, which shows that Randle is more aggressively going to the hole. Randle's assist rate is 150% of Okafor's, and his steal rate is nearly twice Okafor's. His rebound rate is astronomical compared to Okafor's. But Okafor does something you want from your bigs: blocks shots at a rate nearly triple Randle's. It's worth noting, however, that none of these numbers are elite with the exception of the rebound rate on Randle. In other words: only one of these guys is elite at anything.

    Now, you might think that they're both young, and they're both developing, so perhaps Okafor's massive frame will allow him to become an elite rebounder. Perhaps, but that's not the trend, and it's not the trend either that Okafor is moving toward being an elite scorer. Look at the per month splits.

    OKAFOR
    OCT: 18-7-1 on 50%
    NOV: 17-8-1 on 46%
    DEC: 17-8-1 on 45%
    JAN: 17-5-1 on 61%
    FEB: 16-9-2 on 49% (limited games)
    Notice anything? He's not going anywhere. He's posting numbers essentially the same as he did on day 1 of the season.

    RANDLE
    OCT: 9-7-1.5 on 35%
    NOV: 12-9-2 on 45%
    DEC: 12-10-1 on 39%
    JAN: 10-10-1.5 on 41%
    FEB: 13-13-2 on 46% (limited games)
    Notice anything? He's building - improving his scoring (more or less) and massively improving his rebounding); his FG% has gone from the toilet to nearly what Okafor's is, too.

    I don't want to prognosticate about what players will be for their full future, but I love the way Randle has handled adversity and seemingly used it as motivation. His injury, rotation nonsense, and starter/non-starter stuff hasn't had a negative impact on him. Nor did the losing. Okafor has had some public problems, and he hasn't improved noticeably since season's beginning. I think both big guys have a lot to offer in the NBA, but if I had to take a player right now, I'd take Randle.
     
  7. alam1108

    alam1108 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    13,585
    Likes Received:
    37,190
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Laker Land
    Offline
    I'm hoping for some interesting trades in the next couple hours. This trade deadline has been noisy with big names being tossed around but we've had like what, two trades with Tobias Harris being the biggest name.
     
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Messages:
    28,475
    Likes Received:
    62,061
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I was in the middle of posting something similar to @trodgers so I'll just throw this in there for emphasis on Randle's elite rebounding ability:

    Double-Doubles from Rookie/Sophomores:
    Towns: 30
    Randle: 21
    Porzingis: 18
    Okafor: 11

    Total Rebounds:
    Towns: 547 (in 1627 minutes)
    Randle: 538 (in 1476 minutes)
    Porzingis: 415 (in 1525 minutes)
    Okafor: 347 (in 1431 minutes)

    Randle right now is 4th overall in total rebounds in the NBA today.
    His defensive rebounding percentage is 4th behind only Drummond, Jordan, and Whiteside.

    It may seem like a small point, but it's an absolutely elite skill that Randle possesses which none of his peers do except maybe Towns who is bigger, taller, and plays more minutes.

    I like Okafor a lot and I think in the right environment he can be a great asset (not Philly), but I wouldn't trade Randle for him. I'd love to get him somehow, but not using Randle or Russell.
     
  9. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Class of '15, On Court/Off Court (per 100 possessions)

    Kristaps Porzingis..........+7.5
    Justise Winslow.............+5.5
    D'Angelo Russell............+3.1
    Willie Cauley-Stein.........+3.0
    Karl-Anthony Towns.......+1.1
    Mario Hezonja................-0.5
    Frank Kaminsky..............-0.5
    Emmanuel Mudiay...........-0.6
    Larry Nance....................-1.2
    Trey Lyles.......................-3.2
    Devin Booker..................-4.1
    Stanley Johnson..............-5.0
    Myles Turner...................-6.5
    Cameron Payne.............-10.6
    Jahlil Okafor..................-11.6

    Thanks to GT. I'm not trading any of our young players for Okafor...I'm good on him.
     
    Weezy, Battle Tested20, TIME and 3 others like this.
  10. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    28,523
    Likes Received:
    76,743
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Online
    i'm lazy: what's the team's defensive rebounding percentage with randle on and off the court. this could help put his raw numbers into perspective and alleviate concern that he's the only rebounder amidst a front line full of poor rebounders.

    and as much as i like to see our boy near the top of the on/off list above, i wonder how much of that has to do with playing against second-line players in garbage time. doesn't explain okafor's presence at the bottom, though. probably no good excuse for that.

    also funny regarding that list: with the exception of the zinger (lower) and okafor (higher), the guys atop that list were atop my draft board. had the lakers drafted 5th, i wanted cauley-stein, winslow (maybe s. johnson), and hezonja.

    what do folks think of booker's place there? does it throw shade on his strong box score performance that his team has struggled with him playing?

    ok, i'm done with the semi-related questions and observations.
     
  11. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,870
    Likes Received:
    7,853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    what's Randle's, since this is basically his rookie year?
     
  12. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
  13. LaVarBallsDad

    LaVarBallsDad - Lakers Legend -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    16,172
    Likes Received:
    31,056
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
  14. VinMillerHearn24

    VinMillerHearn24 - Rookie -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    361
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Offline
    In other words, the squad we have, is the squad we roll with the rest of the season. Tank on!
     
  15. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,178
    Likes Received:
    18,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    Oh, crap! I did all this, but I did it for total rebound rate. I'll check defensive:

    Julius Randle

    On Court:
    LAL Total Rebound %: 49.0
    OPP Total Rebound %: 51.0

    Off Court
    Total Rebound %: 46.3
    OPP Total Rebound %: 53.7

    Differential: +5.2%

    Best Differentials:
    Tarik Black: +13.7%
    Randle: +5.2%

    Jahlil Okafor

    On Court:
    PHI total rebound %: 48.1%
    OPP total rebound %: 51.9%

    Off Court:
    PHI Total rebound %: 47.4%
    OPP Total rebound %: 52.6%

    Differential: +1.4%

    Best differentials:
    JaKarr Sampson +4.7
    Tony Wroten +3.0
    TJ McConnell +2.9
    Jerami Grant +2.5
    Robert Covington +1.7
     
  16. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    12,178
    Likes Received:
    18,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professor of Humanities
    Location:
    Orlando
    Offline
    Randle's Defensive Rebound Rate:

    On Court: 0.0%
    Off Court: -6.9%
    Differential: +6.9%

    Biggest Differential on Team:
    Tarik Black +10.1%
    Randle +6.9%
     
  17. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,811
    Likes Received:
    22,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    I'd be all for getting Okafor, but I'm not giving up any of our core four (Russell / Randle / Clarkson / Nance) unless it gets us something special like a Durant.
     
  18. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2014
    Messages:
    9,152
    Likes Received:
    22,367
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    I'd give up Nance in heartbeat if he's all it cost for Okafor. I think I'd roll the dice on a a Nance + lose the protection on our pick for Okafor as well. Sure, the pick could end up #1 and it becomes Ben Simmons and Nance for Okafor. But it stands a much better chance of being no pick at all and Nance. Nance is a nice player, but I think he's more in the Tarik Black mold as far as being a really solid rotational player, but not a starter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
    Weezy, therealdeal and Barnstable like this.
  19. Punk-101

    Punk-101 - Lakers Starter -

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,870
    Likes Received:
    7,853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Offline
    Or we end up a t 4, and philly would've gotten it anyway, and basically traded Nance for Okafor.
     
    therealdeal likes this.
  20. TIME

    TIME Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,811
    Likes Received:
    22,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lifelong Lakers fan.
    Location:
    LaLa Land
    Offline
    IF we could get Okafor for Nance only, then sure, but that's NOT gonna happen. I would not trade Nance plus the pick.
     

Share This Page