2016 Rumor Mill: Trades and Players to Watch

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by Doc Brown, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    For the people who want Whiteside but not Cousins, Cousins may cost us a couple young guys, but he's a much better player than Whiteside. I am almost certain Whiteside will fall off the face of the earth next season after his payday. I think it's as close to a lock as any "contract year" player I've seen. I sincerely hope we steer clear of him at all costs.
     
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  2. ZenMaster

    ZenMaster - Lakers All Star -

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    Don't want either. On record. Cousins, for all his alleged prowess, can't, for a long time now, lift his team to anything worth mentioning.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that at his usage rate he is way overrated. @trodgers probably would know.
     
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  3. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I have some data on this. Will post when I have a chance.
     
  4. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know what everyone's favorite stat is, but if you look at USG vs Win Share:

    Cousins
    27.2/1.1
    29.7/4.2
    28.1/4.4
    32.7/7.9
    34.1/6.0
    This season projected: 35.7/8.0

    White side
    14.8/0.2
    21.2/5.3
    This season projected: 19.6/9.6

    Whiteside way lower usage, comparable win shares. Now compare with our players with similar or higher USG.

    Kobe 30/-1
    DAR 24/0
    Lou 23/3
    Clarkson 23/1
    Randle 22/.4
    Kelly 20/.3
    Young 19/.2

    Either would be a big lift. Cousins would use more than even Kobe. Whiteside does damage without much usage.
     
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  5. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Durant is a 30 USG player. Averaging about 16 win shares over last three full seasons.
     
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  6. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Derozan is 25-30 USG and about 8 win shares.
     
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  7. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    So, way premature win projections, with no other upgrades:

    KD and no one else: 34
    DD and no one else: 26
    White side and no one else: 28
    Cousins and no one else: 26

    DD and cousins: 34
    DD and white side: 36
    DD and Durant: 42
    KD and cousins: 42
    KD and white side: 44

    DD, KD, and Whiteside: 52
    DD, KD, and cousins: 50
    DD, cousins, Whiteside: 44
     
  8. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    I just can't believe Whiteside is actually worth two more wins than Cousins. Cousins is a far superior player. I mean, the Heat have Bosh, Wade, and Dragic in addition to Whiteside and they are only 3 games above .500. Regardless, even if these stats are 100% accurate, Whiteside will not be the same player next season. I would bet money on it. Cousins will be.

    It's all for naught though. Cousins ain't getting traded with this recent win streak that puts them in the 8th spot. I REALLY hope we don't grab Whiteside. He'll be this offseason's Dragic for me, a player we will be rumored to be in the running for that I pray and hope we don't sign.
     
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  9. abeer3

    abeer3 - Lakers Legend -

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    i don't have savory's level of reservations about whiteside, but he does concern me. i see why people want him, but i think there are other ways to shore up the center position (trade, mainly). SA and GS are really good defensive teams, and neither employs the athletic shotblocker that everyone thinks you need these days.

    in other words, there's more than one way to skin that proverbial cat. the lakers will be a prime dumping ground for bloated short-term deals assuming they strike out in FA again. there could be some solutions there.
     
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  10. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    Watching GS last night I'm once again struck by the fact that I think Barnes is the odd man out there. He gave them next to nothing and they still beat the second best team in the league by 30 points. Ezeli is indispensable for the Warriors because he's a perfect complement to Bogut with his activity and durability. Eventually he'll probably even take Bogut's place completely. Livingston is another guy who has proven to be indispensable to them. He leads the second unit and as long as he does their bench is in very good shape to keep leads or even extend them. We saw what his leadership meant in the finals. I'm not sure they win without him.

    But Barnes is different. They have so much fire power already that he really doesn't get a ton of looks and is a bit under used. To be quite honest, too, Brandon Rush has done superbly in place of him and he's a massively cheaper contract. And then there's Iggy who plays the same position and is OBVIOUSLY the most indispensable guy in this whole discussion. The dude won the Finals MVP for good reason. He's their Lebronze stopper and they'll need him for the next few years precisely to do that. Bottom line, the Warriors look like the Warriors with or without Barnes. I don't see any reason at all that they pay him a max contract to stick around with the chances that they would strapped when it comes to those other guys.

    I'm still in favor of throwing a max at him and daring GS to match if we happen to lose out on guys like Durant, Horford and DD. Other consolation prize is Batum who I really wouldn't mind having even if we have to overpay. I see him as a nice player alongside Clarkson, Randle and Russell because of his skill set. Yes, he's not as talented as DD, but he's a much better fit with those guys.
     
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  11. EJones06

    EJones06 - Rookie -

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    Well put. I think this comes back to the old evaluation of value relative to cost. While Whiteside is very intriguing, he will almost definitely command a max deal. With his off-the-court baggage and offensive limitations, is he worth paying that much relative to some other serviceable options you can probably get at a much cheaper price? I think probably not.

    It's also for this same reason I think you take Cousins over Whiteside all day. For one, he's an ELITE offensive Center, and by no means a slouch defensively. Secondly, he's younger than Whiteside and comes at a way better price tag (Cousins contract will be around $16.5 million or so the next 2 years). Finally, while many question his winning pedigree, let's not forget that he's never had a true allstar teammate to help him carry the squad, has been banging it out in a loaded Western Conference his whole career, and has been through a carousel of coaches.
     
  12. lakerjones

    lakerjones Moderator Staff Member

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    With the big guys I'd love to get Horford. I agree with many that Whiteside is a bit of a question mark as far as his character and whether or not he is going to be a contract year player or if he will continue this level of play once he gets paid. Still, I'd probably take that risk if we miss out on Horford.
     
  13. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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  14. sirronstuff

    sirronstuff - Lakers Legend -

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  15. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    I'd take Mahinmi, too.
     
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  16. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been with you on this one all along. Great under-the-radar type of move to call him early in the process.
     
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  17. lakersyunowin

    lakersyunowin - Lakers 6th Man -

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    He's having a lot of trouble staying healthy this year. Is this a thing with him? Or a fluke for this year?

    I think I'd still rather have Gorgui Dieng.
     
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  18. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    He's on pace for a career high minutes. Worth watching. He and Black and one more bargain signing and we'd be improved and still able to add two max ballers.
     
  19. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    I like your comment, but if things continue this way, I see no scenario where Black would return to this team. And someone will offer him a deal worth 3 million or so. Do we even know enough about him to consider that?
     
  20. trodgers

    trodgers Administrator Staff Member

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    Honestly, I think we do - and he's worth it. Would he want to come back? If Byron isn't here, I think he thinks highly enough of his own abilities to return and carve out a legit role.

    BTW, here's a team we could probably swing, financially:

    Russell/Clarkson
    DeRozan/Williams
    Batum/Ingram/Brown
    Randle/Nance
    Mahinmi/Black/Sacre
     

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