2015 Nba Draft Discussion: Russell, Nance Jr., Brown

Discussion in 'Lakers Discussion' started by LaVarBallsDad, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. Ryanwestlombardi

    Ryanwestlombardi - Rookie -

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    To me any team that picks him that high will have made a mistake. Why it's true he's a beast as a defensive big in the college game his thin body will make him a defensive liability against NBA bigs. Now if he could shoot then he'd be a terrific stretch 4. I like him just not as a top 10, just my opinion, I've been wrong before..lol
     
  2. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Apparently Porzingis is turning heads again. He's 7'1", thin as a rail, but he's a decent shooter and fairly athletic. I think he'd take at least 3 years to turn into something in the NBA and even then I'm not sure what that would be. I want no part of him, but someone else might.
     
  3. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I see what you're saying. I wasn't all that high on him for a while, but if his head is on straight he's a great pick-up. My top 10 goes:

    1. Okafor
    2. Towns
    3. Mudiay
    4. Johnson
    5. Russell
    6. Cauley-Stein
    7. Winslow
    8. Kaminsky
    9. Oubre
    10. Porzingis or Hezonja
     
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  4. Ryanwestlombardi

    Ryanwestlombardi - Rookie -

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    To me Towns is looking more and more like the best big in the draft. Prior posts have compared him to Bynum, and there are some similar characteristics especially offensively. But he is much quicker,has better awareness on D and passes well out of doubles. Okafur is clever on offense with a great touch but I am so concerned that his D will not translate to the NBA. The Center position has been devalued in today's NBA with all the 3 point shooting and perimeter play being the new recipe for success. Teams are looking for and valuing bigs that play great D and rebound, Mozgov, Jordan and Whiteside come to mind . I believe guys like Brook Lopez and Al Jefferson are in for a rude awakening in free agency.
     
  5. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I just don't agree with that.

    The NBA is cyclical and as the post players have died and faded thanks to great guard play, they've become devalued. All it takes is the next great post player to change that though. A guy who is big, makes FT, and can score at will inside is ALWAYS going to be valuable to a team.

    I predict soon we'll see the reverse trend start: we'll start seeing a few more teams build inside-out and have rangy defenders outside and strong presences inside.

    Okafor to me is the kind of guy who can start that trend. Just tremendous offensive ability in a big, strong body. In fact the only reason to consider Towns over him now: Towns has developed some rudimentary post moves. Now that Towns can score inside for himself a little bit he's looking like a great #1 pick.
     
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  6. Ryanwestlombardi

    Ryanwestlombardi - Rookie -

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    I'm stoked that we are able to agree to disagree and dissect their games for the future of the Lakers due to the fact the Lakers have a good chance at getting either one!
     
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  7. Ryanwestlombardi

    Ryanwestlombardi - Rookie -

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    If Russell continues to display his great ball handling, ability to create shots for himself and others, toughness,and defensive strength in these future tournament games he could end up being the top pick. To me he's looked like the real deal all year, and yesterday he was outstanding.
     
  8. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    Totally thanks for having a genuine conversation in which two people don't have to agree. It's part of why I love this community so much. :rock:
     
  9. lakerfan2

    lakerfan2 - Lakers All Star -

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    @Ryanwestlombardi Dwight was a stick out of college too. I could see WCS throwing on some weight to get to the NBA level.
     
  10. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    1. Okafor
    2. Towns
    3. Russell
    4. Mundiay
    5. Johnson

    After that, it really doesn't matter until the late 20's cause we ain't keeping our pick. The more I read about WCS the more I become concerned. And what ever happened to that sickle cell thing he suffered from last season? That is a pretty big concern for me over the course of 82 games plus playoffs.
     
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  11. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    You can't even get his name right man! It's Mudiay!

    I'm just not that high on Russell still. Something about him just doesn't compute with me. We'll have to see if he can continue to show me something, but I'm not as impressed as everyone else.
     
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  12. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    @therealdeal you had Johnson at #3 a couple of days ago. Did you slide him down because of his display yesterday?

    And if you don't mind me asking, what have you seen from Mudiay to prefer him over Russell?
     
  13. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    I interchange Johnson and Mudiay on a daily basis. I love what Johnson brings, but if I'm impartial Mudiay has a higher ceiling. Our greatest need from this draft is a guy capable of carrying the team. There's three guys I think that fit the bill: Mudiay, Towns, and Okafor. I think Russell maxes out as a 3rd Best Player and bottoms out as a borderline NBA player. I think Stan Johnson is a rock solid starter for years and years with an outside shot at an All-Star game. If we end up with either I'm not upset, but I'd prefer the guys with high ceilings that can propel us forward.

    It's not so much what I've seen from Mudiay as what I've seen from Russell. I've seen some B+ ball handling, good passing, good vision, and a natural feel for shooting the ball. I've also seen limited defensive upside, limited athleticism, inconsistent shooting and shooting form, and a lack of explosiveness that could be detrimental at the next level. Mudiay's #1 knock is his shooting which is the easiest thing to fix at the next level. Mudiay is also athletic, has a great feel for the pick and roll, more capable defensively (although not necessarily defensively inclined), is a tremendous finisher in the paint, and can get to the rim at will. To be fair his other knocks are inconsistent defensive effort, decision making at times, lapses in concentration, and at times poor shot choices.

    Of the two, I'd rather take the chance on Mudiay who projects as a definite PG while Russell projects as a SG with some PG skills.
     
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  14. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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  15. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    That's a fair assessment but I wanted to point out a few things.

    1. Projecting Russell to max out as a 3rd Best Player and bottom out as a borderline NBA player is a bit harsh. He has all the tools to max out as a Curry 2.0. He can shoot. That alone makes him a valuable asset to any team (whats keeping Ray Allen in the league forever)

    2. Mudiay's shot might stay broken. Some guys just can't fix it RE: Rondo Whereas natural shooters like Russell will keep getting better

    3. All the traits you mention, remember, are against very poor competition. (a league where Stephon Marbury goes off for 52 points) Any guard in the NBA can get to the rim at will in the CBA.

    If he struggles driving past NBA defenders, and if he can't fix his jumper, he may start his career in the D-league.
     
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  16. ElginTheGreat

    ElginTheGreat - Lakers MVP -

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    A little disappointed Purdue lost in the first round. I wanted to see more of their big man A.J. Hammons. He isn't highly ranked, but has looked good in several games I have seen him in.
     
  17. therealdeal

    therealdeal Moderator Staff Member

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    How do you judge my take on Russell as harsh and then say anybody can drive in China and that Mudiay is a D-Leaguer?

    1. I've compared Russell to Ginobili. That's high praise. I'd prefer to do better in the draft and I think Mudiay's ceiling is closer to Wall's so I'd prefer that.

    2. It might, but not in LA with Kobe working with him and Randle and Clarkson hanging around too. Hard-working culture that won't settle for a lack of development. Besides his shot isn't broken, his mechanics are just off. He releases on the way down and at times doesn't finish at the right angle. Both easily correctable mistakes.

    3. The CBA is not all that different from the NCAA actually so to judge Mudiay negatively against that competition but Russell favorably against his competition at Ohio State doesn't make a ton of sense. Russell is playing against some guys who wont make it in the NBA. Mudiay is playing with and against some guys who made it and were successful in the NBA.
     
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  18. LTLakerFan

    LTLakerFan - Lakers Legend -

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Savory Griddles

    Savory Griddles Moderator Staff Member

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    I've actually seen fantastic ball handling and VERY good court vision from Russell. Mudiay just scares me because we haven't seen him against the same competition. There's no apples to apples. He's like this year's Exum in a way. But I'm on board with Okafor then Towns.
     
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  20. tada

    tada - Lakers All Star -

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    @therealdeal

    1. Russell is already a better shooter than Ginobili. Mudiay has nothing that is even remotely close to Wall.

    2. No argument here. But it will take time. It always does.

    3. Key phrase there is "were successful in the NBA" They are all washed up by the time they get to the CBA, where they become prolific scorers. They leave because they no longer can get a contract in the NBA. So no, the CBA is below the NCAA in terms of competiton. NCAA stars (20ppg+) usually become effective players in the NBA. Can't say the same about CBA players.
     

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