You keep going to one source of data for your conclusion that he's not a good post player. It's fine though. You don't have to want him here. I'm just stating my opinion. I don't even think he'll come here. I think he'll go to NY and the Lakers will either draft a Center or pick up one of the rim protector types and try to have Julius carry us as far as paint production goes.
That's fine. I respect your opinion. Let me put it this way; fundamentally, I think he's an above average post player when I watch him play. However, the stat I keep mentioning has to do with the efficiency he's doing it at which is the middle of the pack. If his pick in roll/pop numbers were better, he was a better cutter, and/or a better spot up shooter, I'd have no problems with signing him. He'd have a multi-faceted attack and would be a threat to another team defending him in all those areas that I mentioned... Defensively, he's also not good enough to offset that. It's alright, though. I think he goes to NY, too.
Wait a minute his numbers are really solid now that I look at those stats you just posted. His worst offensive attribute is the pick and roll where he still scores respectably. For put-backs he had 164 attempts for 1.19 PPP. The only players with more put-back attempts were Brook Lopez and DeAndre Jordan. Brook Lopez had three more attempts, but the same exact PPP. DeAndre Jordan had WAY more attempts but scored only 1.11 PPP. The only other people to come close in attempts were Asik and Robin Lopez who were much worse at .94 and .92 respectively. I'd say Monroe ranks very highly in this category. Off the cut he was almost identical in terms of effectiveness to Jordan Hill. That is to say MORE effective than Ed Davis, Marc Gasol, and Roy Hibbert despite them having about 40 more attempts than him. Now his high efficiency is likely due to him not taking as many attempts as those players, so I'd call it a wash. I'd say he's probably about average in this category. In transition he's one of only four Centers that had more than 50 fast-break attempts AND converted over 1.3 PPP on those runs. I'd say he's elite in this category. So even according to your numbers he's at the very least above average offensively, but probably much closer to very good offensively. If you don't want him because he's not a great defender that's one thing, but the guy is a good offensive weapon. I'd say he's a good approximation of what Okafor is likely to look like in the NBA.
Yeah, you're right on the put backs. He and Andre formed one of the best 4 and 5 rebounding duo's in the league. He was active on the offensive glass and partly because Detroit couldn't shoot a lick. Nevertheless, I did like his activity, so you're right on that. Also, I think you're right on him being average in terms of cutting; I didn't see him do a lot of that when I watched Detroit. He mostly faced up and posted which was evidenced by the 468 possessions by he during the year. In transition, he's elite. I forgot to point that out. Thanks for the correction. Offensively, in totality, I'd say he measured above average well on offense. However his bread and butter is posting up, and I still contend he's not very efficient in that area especially if we're emphasizing it in our offense which I hope we're not unless we draft Okafor. Can he do other things? Sure. However, the way his game is predicated offensively will leave him clogging the middle clogging up driving lanes while getting less than a point on post-ups. Since that what he does most of the time, I just wouldn't like the fit. If we could utilize him in other areas, that'd be more interesting too me. Defensively, from what I've seen he's not a great rim protector. He'll do well next to a rim-protecting big, though. IDK. If all our options are dried up, and the Lakers are going after him, I'd have to reconsider my position.
Yeah I totally understand that take. He's not a perfect fit by any stretch. I like him because he's at least a 16/10/2 guy with a ceiling for probably 19/11/3.5 or something like that. Those are great numbers from your Center position. And while I absolutely love everything we're seeing/hearing from Randle so far he's got a LONG way to go before we can count on his production inside. Monroe is a proven commodity near the rim. He and Drummond co-exist and neither of them can really hit a jumper so I'm not too worried about crowding the paint. I do understand how things could go very differently though if we draft a certain way or find another option in FA. If we end up with him though, it's all-in-all a good thing. For instance, if we draft Russell and max out Monroe, we still have room to sign a guy like Danny Green AND Ed Davis. Clarkson/Russell Kobe/Russell Green/Young Randle/Black Monroe/Davis Pretty good team, super young, with a really high ceiling.
That was different. The Grizzlies hadn't choked every single time an opportunity to ascend presented itself to them. And nobody blamed Pau for those losses. If anything, he was the reason they even got to the playoffs. What was he supposed to do, handily beat the Spurs, Suns and Mavericks, all three of which were juggernauts at the time? The Grizzlies were the quintessential 8th seeds those years. On the other hand, those Clippers are acting like the born losers that they are. They choked away that series like few teams have ever choked away a series before. I don't see how any of those guys come back next season and play with confidence. And if shooting below 40% on free throws isn't the definition of bum, I don't know what is. I'll be depressed if we sign DeAndre. At least Odom had a chance to prove himself in Miami. Since when do we sign the Clippers' recent cast-offs? How low have we sunk that we're even considering this?
I don't like the fit with Monroe and Randle. I haven't checked Monroe's stats on what he shoots outside of 15 feet, but I had to watch Hill clog up the paint last year because he wouldn't roll to the hoop on the pick in roll; he opted to pop out and take his 20 foot jumper that he shot in the 37% on; defenses knew that, sagged off of Jordan and congested the paint. Randle hasn't developed it consistently yet, I can't count on him hitting it with any kind of regularity. As for Drummond and Monroe, I have a feeling when Monroe leaves and SVG gets a stretch 4 in there the offensive efficiency for Detroit will go up. I'm not a fan of having two bigs in the paint that can't shoot especially with the way the league is trending. Now, if we drafted WCS, and we acquired Monroe, that would work for me. Put Randle behind Monroe and if/when Randle develops in 2 years and is ready to make that leap into the starting role, trade Monroe. However, in the interim, at least your putting a more competitive product on the floor.
Ok, what about Shaq? He lost 2 straight Finals to the Houston Rockets before we acquired him. What if Miami had that same attitude about Lebron before he made his decision to go to Miami? That's my point. We simply can't dismiss what DJ has done this season or who he's played for; he's a 7'1 center who defends, rebounds, sets bone crushing screens, and is a great finisher around the rim. I could care less about who he's play for as long as he's been productive. There's a reason why Ramona reported that the Lakers would love to lure him away from the Clippers; he'd make an immediate impact and fill a position we desperate need...
Shay didn't lose two straight finals. You're mistaken. And nobody looked at Shaq after the finals and thought he choked it away. And for all of Shaq's free-throw woes, he never shot as poorly as DJ and he did, in fact, make them when they counted. It's why he could stay on the floor in crunch time, which DJ can't. And just remember, if we max him, that's a lot of cap space we can't use on other players.
My fault. The team Shaq led in 95 lost the Finals against Houston; although, didn't Nick Anderson's free throws come into play. Either way, did you know that DJ's points per possession when he's getting hacked and shooting free-throws is equivalent to a LaMarcus Aldrige mid-range shot? Yes, I'd sign him. In a heart beat; max him out.
Would love to see where Biyombo ranks in these categories. I tried searching for them with no luck. Just based on the eye test, I sign Biyombo before any of the C's we have a chance at. In regards to the Monroe talk, Marc Gasol was the only C in the league to average 16 PPG or more on a team with a winning record this season. He's able to lead a winning team while scoring that much because he does a lot of his damage in the high post and leads them as a defensive anchor. The rules and changes in offensive systems and play calling brought on by the increased availability of advanced metrics have almost completely phased out the traditional post up bigs. Monroe doesn't have those other aspects of Marc's game that would allow him to lead a winning team. Going forward the type of C you're going to see having the biggest impact is the defensive anchors that set very good screens. You either have bigs that can create spacing with their shot, or bigs stepping out to the 3 point line to set a great screen and create an efficient scoring opportunity. Guys like Gobert, Bogut, Biyombo are the cream of the crop for setting good screens, anchoring a defense by controlling the paint, dominating the boards. With Biyombo expected to be available for a contract starting between 4-6M I don't know why anyone would consider giving Monroe or Jordan the max.
Yeah I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you. Rules be damned. This league has always been driven by dominant post players. If you have a big man who can create out of the post, good luck with that big bad rim protector and screen setter. There's a reason Marc Gasol is in the playoffs, Zach Randolph and Tim Duncan say hello. Just because there's a lack of true dominant post players, doesn't make them any less important. They'll always drive the league when they exist. It's about finding that guy and getting him. Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, Pau, Wilt, Duncan, and even Mikan. There's a reason those guys tend to come up quickly when discussing lists of great players. Now that's not to say I don't want a rim protector if we can get one, but if we can get a dominant post player I want him way way way way way more. Monroe might be that guy (though it's unlikely). Okafor could certainly be that guy. Towns might be, but I'm not convinced.
For me its tough, because in my opinion of whether or not we should go after him depends on if Silver and Company decide to change the hack-a-shaq rule so teams can no longer intentionally foul. I don't think they should change the rule but if they do DJ just became that much more valuable. As of right now I would rather we go after either lopez or asik because we wouldn't have to offer a max to them.
I would agree with the type of center the league is going toward. Memphis & Golden State are two interesting, indicative examples of this phenomenon. If you were to construct an ideal post-centric team, it would look a lot like Memphis. You have two of the better post players in the league, in Gasol & Randolph. You have a good, unselfish PG in Conley. In Gasol, Conley, & Tony Allen, you have arguably three different positions where you boast a Top 3 player on the defensive end. Even Zach Randolph is an underrated defender, as this article explains. Yet they haven't even gotten close to a title, only advancing to the WCFs once after OKC lost Westbrook. On the flip side, you have Golden State. They serve as a great example of the differences in old school/new school philosophy. Last year, they won a very respectable 51 games, on the way to losing in the 1st Round. Their core stayed exactly the same, and this year they won 67 games, tying for the 6th best record in NBA history. Except for the fringes of their roster, the only difference was going from Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr. Their post usage plummeted, their pace and passes per game skyrocketed, and their general principles changed to more modern philosophies. Not a single significant player was added. Regardless if GS or ATL win the title or not, the system they run have gotten the most out of their teams, IMO.
